All right, so we are live streaming now.
I will turn on the cloud recording right now.
Oh, looks like somebody already did that.
No need to.
The live stream's on and recorded for you.
OK, good.
Gotcha.
All right, well, I can stop that extra recording, then.
The recording button is on because somebody else
is recording.
That's the live stream recording.
OK, so this is the first hearing of the Special Joint
Committee on Redistricting.
And I am State Senator Will Brownsberger,
who is the Senate Chair of this, and I'm here this morning
with my House Co-Chair Chairman Mike Moran.
This is April 14.
We've started the recording at 11:00 AM.
Let me make sure that-- that sounds like a delay.
That is definitely working.
OK, I had to add the lifestream myself on the background,
so it just started up there.
So you heard that echo there.
So what I want to begin by doing is just
simply introducing the members of the committee,
and I will do that.
Then I'll make a couple introductory remarks.
My chair will make a couple of introductory remarks.
Any members can make introductory remarks
if they wish to.
Chairman Moran will go over the proposed hearing
schedule and a little bit about the website,
and then we will begin the main purpose of the meeting, which
is public testimony.
At the end of public testimony, we will wrap up
and we will switch into an executive session
for the purpose of adopting our committee charge.
Executive session does not mean that anybody,
the public is excluded.
It just means that we are talking amongst ourselves
but remaining in public, and we will
vote on our committee charge.
So with that, the members of the Senate Joint Committee,
let me just have people introduce themselves.
Senator Gobi.
I'll call names and people people can just say hello.
Hello.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you.
Senator Cyr.
Good morning from Cape Cod.
Julian Cyr.
I represent 20 communities across Cape Cod,
Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket.
Good to be with you.
Thank you.
Senator [INAUDIBLE],, are you online?
Not quite.
Senator Chang-Diaz?
Not online yet.
And Senator Hinds, say hello.
Good morning.
Adam Hinds, hailing from Pittsfield
and representing the 52 westernmost municipalities
in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
Chairman Moran, would you like to introduce your colleagues?
Senator Gomez.
I'm sorry, let me back up.
Senator Gomez, you're there.
You want to say hello?
We'll move on.
Senator Gomez is not unmuting, but that's OK.
Other members of the--
I apologize.
I had a technical difficulty with the mute button.
Adam Gomez from the Hampden District.
I am happy to be here.
Thank you so much.
We are glad.
We're glad to have you.
Thank you for being here this morning.
Chairman Moran, you can take over
with the members of the House.
Thank you, Chairman Brownsberger.
I will just do it as I see them on here.
I have reached out to a number of the members who
have asked to say a few words, but I
think we'll let them all just introduce themselves
real quick if they don't mind.
From the newest member of the House on this committee,
from Barnstable, Representative Kip Diggs from Barnstable
is on this committee.
Morning.
I'm honored to be here.
Kip Diggs, 2nd Barnstable District, and thanks
for having me.
And I look forward to meeting you all.
Fantastic.
Next up is the gentleman from Mattapoisett,
the Chairman of Transportation, Representative Strauss.
Morning, Mr. Chair and Mr. Chair.
Thank you.
Bill Strauss from Mattapoisett, 10th Bristol District.
Thank you, Bill.
Great.
Next we have the gentlelady from Provincetown,
the Assistant Majority Leader, Representative Sarah Peake.
Good morning, Mr. Chairman and colleagues.
Sarah Peake from the 4th Barnstable District,
the outer lower part of Cape Cod.
You want us to make our remarks now, Mr. Chairman?
Are we doing that?
If you want to say something, go right ahead.
Just briefly, because we have a full agenda today,
but it's an honor to serve on this committee.
And looking around at this screen,
I appreciate the diversity that's represented,
not only racial diversity.
Geographic diversity, urban and rural communities
are represented.
So I think that this special committee is well positioned
and put together to really do a great job with this effort
that we have to do every 10 years.
So thank you for including me, Mr. Chairman.
I appreciate it.
Fantastic.
Thank you, Sarah.
Next up is the gentleman from Lowell, the Division
Chairman of the House, Tommy "Don't Call Me Tipper" Golden.
Good morning, Mr. Leader.
How are you, and to all my Senate colleagues
and House colleagues, welcome.
Looking forward to working with all of you,
Tom Golden, or Tipper as the leader just stated.
State Representative from the City of Lowell and the Town
of Chelmsford.
Glad to be here, and glad to see all of my friends.
I wish we were doing this in person.
Thank you.
Next up is a gentleman that is my vice Chair.
I'm thrilled that he's on this committee again.
This is his second time around on this committee,
this time serving as a Vice Chair of the Committee,
also the Vice Chair of Transportation,
the gentleman from Lawrence, Mr Marcos Devers.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Hello, everyone.
It's a great honor to share with you.
This committee is wonderful.
It's a great privilege for me to be
second time as a member of this special committee,
and wonderful to be with all my colleagues
from the Senate and the House.
A great pleasure to serve.
Thank you.
Thank you, Marcos.
Thank you very much.
Also from the great city of Lawrence, no relation,
the gentleman from Lawrence, Frank Moran.
Frank serves in the House as a Division Chair as well.
Frank, thanks for being here.
Buenos dias, todos.
My name is Frank Moran.
I represent the great City of Lawrence.
Looking forward to working with all of you
on this great committee.
Thank you, Frank.
Did you want to say a few words?
I thought you said you might want to say a few words.
Do you want me to say it now or later?
It's up to you.
You can do it now.
That's fine.
It's up?
If it's OK, Mr. Leader, I'd like to say it
in Spanish and English, because I'm a bilingual person.
Why don't you do it--
I hope you don't mind.
Why don't you do both?
How's that?
All right, that sounds like a--
[SPEAKING SPANISH]
I know you guys didn't understand that,
but I will say it in English now.
It is a pleasure to be with all of you this morning
as we begin to consider this important task ahead
of our special committee on redistricting.
And I'm eager to work alongside all of you
throughout this critical process.
The work of the special committee
will have long lasting effects on the communities
within Massachusetts, and it is not a task that I take lightly.
We are tasked with an incredible responsibility
to ensure the voting districts of our states
are equitable and reflective of all people.
With that being said, I would like
to recognize leader Mike Moran for his previous work
on this process eight years ago.
Without his thoughtful approach to our state
previous redistricting effort, I very well
may not be here with all of you as a colleague today.
Prior to redistricting, the 17th Essex district,
of which I served, was not reflective of someone
like me, an immigrant and a person of color.
The city of Lawrence, the place I'm proud to call my home,
was not provided the proper representation
within Massachusetts legislature even
though it is one of the highest populated communities
in our state.
Simply put, there is no way that a person of color
like me could have been elected if it was not
for redistricting.
I'll say it again.
Simply put, there is no way that a person of color
like me could have been elected if it was not
for redistricting.
It is thanks to leader Mike Moran as well as
the previous members of this committee
that I was afforded the opportunity
to run for state representative eight years ago.
And I'm proud to be the first person of color
to have been elected as a state representative
of the 17th Essex district.
It is a privilege to serve in this committee.
And I look forward to working to ensure
that each and every district in Massachusetts
is reflective of a diverse population
and provide more like me, an immigrant who grew up
in the projects of the city of Lawrence,
the opportunity to serve on Beacon Hill
as a member of the leadership.
I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity, Mr. Leader.
And I look forward to working with this great committee.
Thank you, Frank.
I appreciate that.
And we're happy to have you.
So next up would be the vice chair of Steering, Policy,
and Scheduling, the gentle lady from Pittsfield, Representative
Tricia Farley-Bouvier.
Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman.
I do take this responsibility very, very seriously
to be on this committee.
It's both a privilege and a great responsibility.
I'm Tricia Farley-Bouvier.
I represent the 3rd Berkshire district,
which is most of the city of Pittsfield.
And I'm better known as Senator Hinds' state representative.
So I do take other responsibility,
not only for the people of Berkshire County, all
of Berkshire County, as I'm kind of like our delegation's
representative, but also to my colleagues in the delegation
to be taking the needs of Berkshire
County, an area that's shrinking in population,
and making sure that the people here have
equal access to government.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Tricia.
Next up is the gentle lady from Fall River,
the chairperson of the Tourism, Arts,
and Cultural Development Committee.
The gentle lady from Fall River, Representative Fiola.
Thank you, Chairman Moran, to my colleagues
in the House and Senate Brownsberger,
Senate colleagues.
What an honor to be here with you all as we
embark on this very, very important mission.
I echo my good colleague from Lawrence's comments.
We don't take this lightly.
And I look forward to the work we're going to embark on.
I represent Fall River and Freetown,
two very different communities.
But all deserve the same type of representation that we provide.
So thank you, leader.
Thank you, Chairman Moran.
Thank you, Carol.
Next up is the gentleman from Duxbury,
the House chair of Labor and Workforce Development,
Representative Josh Cutler.
Good morning.
Thank you, Mr Chairman.
Mr. Chairman.
Josh Cutler, 6th Plymouth district.
Greetings from the South Shore.
Looking forward to serving on the committee.
Thank you, Josh.
Appreciate your brevity.
Next up is the gentleman from Haverhill.
He is the vice chair of the Economic Development
and Emerging Technology Committees, Representative
Vargas.
Good morning, Mr. Chairman.
And thank you all for being here today on this historic journey
that we're about to embark on.
I think the representative from Lawrence,
Representative Moran, an older brother to me,
said it very well and said it perfectly.
This is a civics lesson for young people
across the Commonwealth.
And I'm excited to be a part of it.
So thank you for having me.
Thank you, representative.
Next up would be the gentle lady from Boston serving
the 7th Suffolk district, the vice chair of the Judiciary
Committee, Representative Chynah Tyler.
That is me.
Good, now, morning, everyone still.
Representative Chynah Tyler representing the 7th Suffolk
district.
Thank you so much to Chair Moran and Chair Brownsberger.
I look forward to collaborating with you both on a fine product
in which I hope you will--
which I know we'll create in moving forward.
I really look forward to serving on this committee
to just make sure that voices that are traditionally
marginalized and continue to be marginalized
are kind of brought and uplifted in general.
And so I just want to say thank you.
And thank you to everyone for your commitment to being
a part of the committee.
Thank you.
Fantastic.
Thank you, Chynah.
Next up as the gentleman from Worcester.
Oh, sorry.
Is it Worcester?
I got that wrong.
But he is a division chair, and he is a good friend.
Representative Jimmy O'Day.
Somewhere out there, Mr. Chairman, in central Mass.
That's close enough.
I'm sorry.
You're so kind.
[LAUGHTER]
Really, good morning, everybody.
It's a tremendous honor to be here with everyone today.
And I just really wanted to especially say buenas dias
to my friend and brother, Frank Moran.
It's great to have you back here with us, my buddy.
Most of the folks on this call I've had the opportunity
and good fortune to have run into one or two of them
over the last several months.
But there are others on this call I've not
seen in quite some time.
And it's just great to see Frank and others
that I haven't been around.
And really looking forward to serving with you
and Chairman Brownsberger who came in several months ahead
of me, way back in 2007.
And it's great to be on this call with everyone.
And I'm really happy and honored that the speaker put me
on the committee.
You did a tremendous job last time
around, chairman-- excuse me, Mr. Leader Moran.
And I'm really looking forward to the great work
that we have ahead of us.
So thank you very much for the introduction this morning.
Thank you, Jimmy.
Next up is the Assistant Majority Leader
of the House Joe Wagner from the great city of Chicopee.
I might add also a second time member.
He was on this committee 10 years ago.
Thank you, Mr. Leader.
And to the chairs and through the chairs,
it's a great honor to serve again on this committee.
The work, obviously, is very important.
And looking forward to working with all of my colleagues
on the committee and across--
those who are not serving on the committee
but represent districts across the Commonwealth.
So looking forward to getting the work started.
Thank you.
Thank you, Joe.
I'd also now like to introduce the ranking member
of the minority party, the third assistant minority
leader, the gentleman from Auburn,
another veteran of the redistricting committee
who was on this committee 10 years ago with me,
Representative Paul Frost.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and through you
to the members of this special committee.
And it was indeed a joy to serve with you and several others
on this task 10 years ago when it
was a wee bit more challenging to go from--
well, we had to basically redistrict out
a congressional seat.
So that was a very, very big challenge and an unfortunate
one as well, because, obviously, we
don't want to lose representation in Washington.
But I do want to say that I think 10 years ago
was a great process.
This is my third overall redistricting process
since being in the legislature, and as you
said, the second time on this committee.
And I do want to say that I thought
the process went very well.
And I think it was very fair.
And as much as I was a pain in the butt
over regionalizations of congressional districts,
having them make more regional sense,
I believe the overall product did
do that, with some exceptions, of course, as you know.
[LAUGHS] And I'm sure I'll bring those up
over the course of this process.
But overall, I was very happy with the process
10 years ago under your leadership, Mr. Chairman.
And I appreciate your indulgence of listening to my concerns
and allowing me to ask sometimes I
think very tough questions, and your patience.
So thank you very much.
And I look forward to the process ahead for everybody.
Thank you.
Thank you, Paul.
And I think the last member of the House that is on the call
right now is the gentle lady from Holden.
She's the second assistant minority leader,
representing the 1st Worcester district, Kim Ferguson.
Good morning, everyone.
I bring you greetings from my tiny iPhone screen here,
as my laptop has decided to go on strike.
And so I apologize for not being there totally in person
with you.
But it is a pleasure to be appointed
to this special committee.
And I'm looking forward to the work and the challenging work
that we're going to be doing over the next several months.
I do represent the 1st Worcester district,
Holden, Princeton, Paxton, Rutland, half of Sterling,
half of Westminster.
And as it changed a few years ago,
we'll see if it has to change again.
But it's a pleasure to be here with all of you.
Thank you.
Thank you, Representative Ferguson.
And by my math, there's three or four members
that are not on the call.
But if they do come in, I will introduce them
when they get here.
And in the interest of time, because that
did take longer than we thought, I'd
like to turn it back over to my chair.
And he can commence with the rest of the hearing.
Hey, Mr. Chairman.
Rep Nick Boldyga here from Southwick,
representing the 3rd Hampden district, Agawam, Granville,
and Southwick.
It's good to be here with you.
It's the beard, I know.
I've already received--
That's exactly what it is, Nick.
I didn't know who you were.
[LAUGHS]
Everybody's already texted me.
It's the beard.
They didn't recognize who I was.
So I'm here to stay, though.
And hopefully everybody gets used to it.
I'm enjoying it, the incognito of having some facial hair.
But looking forward to working with all of you.
It's been pretty exciting.
I remember the last redistricting
like it was just yesterday.
So it's amazing how fast time flies.
And I think we have such a diverse group of people.
Really looking forward to working with all of you
in the months ahead.
Thank you again.
Thanks, Nick.
I apologize for that.
I lost my hair.
You grow it on your face.
[LAUGHS] Thank you.
And Chairman Brownsberger.
Thank you.
So I want to say that my greatest hope is
that we can have a hearing and redistricting
process over the next six, seven months that goes as smoothly
as what you did in 2010.
That is certainly my objective is
to conduct this process in an open way, a transparent
way, transparent to the public, transparent to our community
of advocates, transparent to the members of both branches.
And hopefully everybody will feel that the process
is extremely fair and even.
And the goal is to have no drama.
We're just going to listen, go by the numbers,
and follow the law to the best of our ability.
So Mr. Chairman, do you want to make some additional remarks
and then maybe head into the next agenda item, which
is an overview of the hearings schedule
and maybe the website a little bit?
You're on mute.
For those of you that haven't seen it--
I tried to send it around last night--
the website is up and running.
And for that, I would like to thank
certainly my staff, Nikita, Amanda, and most particularly
Brian, and also Senator Brownsberger's staff,
but also Paul Park in the LAS department
for really doing such a nice job with it.
And I appreciate the hard work they've done.
The site is very comprehensive in some ways.
We've been recognized by many people
for having this up and having it be so interactive.
It basically explains what redistricting is.
It gives you the laws around redistricting,
court cases that affect--
there is no direct handbook for how we do this,
but you can get some guidance from case law that
has happened over the years to kind of give you
some instruction on where not to go and what to do.
There is some current district maps are up there,
historical district maps from years past.
There is a calendar, which is not completely full yet.
But on that end--
I will touch on it this way, is that our intent
is to do at a minimum nine meetings
in every congressional district.
This meeting, the introductory meeting,
probably a close-out hearing at the end,
and then two additional hearings probably right after we
have a comment period for when we
release the maps, similar to what we did 10 years ago.
That's at a minimum.
If there is a need--
because maybe the census numbers don't come out or come out
early or don't come out soon enough--
we will add hearings if we have to.
There is no rule that says we can't.
So that's essentially what the hearing schedule
is going to look like.
We're hoping to get those done in the next four months,
wrapping up sometime in August with the main hearings.
And then those last two hearings on comments
will be after we release the maps for public consumption.
On the website you can also find out
your district, where you vote.
You can also access a portal, which gives you the ability
to download software, so you can draw your own maps
and send them to us.
Probably the most important thing
is that there's a way you can contact the committee.
And those emails will come directly
to myself and the senator's offices.
You can submit testimony, video or written.
And you can have your voice heard in whichever way
you choose to have it heard, whether it be at a hearing
like this or with a video you want to send us
or with a written testimony.
So that's an important function.
Another important function along with the closed captioning
we have here today is that there is
a language translator on there.
It basically translates 110 languages
into Google Translator.
Not the best, but the best we could
find with the biggest bandwidth to cover as many languages
as we could.
That's something new.
I think that as well as the closed captioning
are two added things that we did this year that we didn't
do 10 years, which I think is going to make the process even
better.
As the senator said, this is really,
for us and for me, the second time around.
If I had a walk up song, it would probably be Shalamar,
"Second Time Around."
But I'm excited about it, because it
does really afford us an opportunity
to, as Frank so eloquently put, give people an option,
give them a chance to have a voice,
and maybe, maybe empower a group that might have been
marginalized over the years.
And I will just end with this.
I want to really bring attention to the Senate president
and the speaker of the House.
The committee they put together here,
from geography, ethnicity, gender, and seniority--
I mean, I introduced every member of the House,
and I gave you their title.
This is a very weighty committee with a lot
of people on this committee that serve
in House and Senate leadership.
The Senate president and the speaker
have been very, very good and clear
that they would like to see as transparent a process as
possible, and where you can improve upon what
we did 10 years ago, do that.
That was very clear from both branches
that that's what they wanted.
So I'm thrilled that we're having this hearing today.
I'm thrilled that we're kicking this off in this way.
I'm thrilled that the website is up and running.
And I'm happy that you took time out of your schedule
to join us and testify and give us your opinion.
I'll turn it back over to my co-chair.
Thank you.
We're now going to turn to the segment of the hearing, which
is the hearing, where we're going to listen
to testimony from witnesses.
And so let me just remind people who
may be watching this on live stream
that they can, should they choose,
join the hearing as witnesses at any time.
And the way for them to do that is
to follow the link that appears on the schedule of the hearing.
And just put your information into that form.
And we will be checking that form at the end of the hearing.
You'll come after those who have previously
signed up on the form.
And let me just welcome Senator Fattman who has joined us.
Senator Fattman, why don't you just say hello.
Hey, good morning, everyone.
I'm sorry, I was at a ribbon cutting
ceremony in my district.
And I'm glad to be here and very excited to get to work.
So thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And I look forward to working with all of you.
Great.
Thank you so much.
OK, so I'm going to now--
we'll see if we can get this working right.
Going to open this up to a panel starting with Beth Wong.
And I'm going to allow Beth to talk.
And so you should be able to unmute yourself, Beth,
when you're ready.
And I see that you want to have also on your starting panel Pam
Willmott, who I'm enabling, and Rahsaan--
has Rahsaan joined us?
Forgive me if I don't see him.
But you can tell me when you start testifying
if you're missing anybody.
I do see Eva, [? Malona, ?] whom I am allowing to talk,
and Judy.
I don't see Judy.
All right, so witnesses, let me recognize Beth Wong to start.
Go ahead, Beth.
Thank you.
And Elizabeth, who is the other co-president
of the League of Women Voters will be testifying
in place of Judy Zaunbrecher.
Well, really, thank you, Chairs Brownsberger and Moran
and members of the committee.
Thank you so much for your time today
to hear the members of the public
and leaders of the Drawing Democracy Coalition.
The Drawing Democracy Coalition strives
to achieve fair districts that equitably represent communities
of color, low income people, and immigrants
through a transparent process and maximum community
engagement.
We're so thrilled to work with you
and work with all of the people across--
all of the representatives and senators
across the legislature.
So we as the Drawing Democracy Coalition
have come together because we believe
that representation matters.
Our Commonwealth has changed in the past decade.
And I'm sure that we'll see these changes reflected
in the 2020 census results.
Our population has likely increased
by 5% to roughly 6.8 million people
due to increased immigration.
But many regions have lost population.
We're looking for a statewide map that
keeps our communities of interest whole and supports
minority or majority BIPOC districts where people of color
make up a majority of residents of the district.
We want to ensure that communities
have authentic representation and open new opportunities
for representation.
As community-- we--
Hey, Beth, what I just did to you there was I
promoted you to be-- so that you could be visible
while you're testifying.
Got it.
And I will do that for Eva and Pam as well.
I guess that's what we'll do is--
I think it's probably-- it's a little more natural for you
to be visible while you're testifying.
And we do have the ability to do that.
So consider yourself visible and carry on.
Well, it's great to see all of you.
I thought that my internet might have gone out.
And I thought, uh-oh.
This isn't good.
Sorry, that's on me.
OK, no worries.
Well, really, it's good to see everyone here.
And so as community leaders, legal advocates,
and researchers, we seek to collaborate with all of you
on the Joint Committee on Redistricting
and the state legislature as a whole
in order to accomplish a few key goals.
The first is to use the data from the 2020 census
to create maps that ensure that the voices of people
of color, low income people, and immigrants are heard.
The second major goals of the Drawing Democracy Coalition
is to educate and mobilize community members
to participate in public forums and provide feedback
on district maps.
Our third major goal is to democratize access
to data and mapping tools in order
to increase community voice in redistricting.
And then finally, we are advocating
for a redistricting process that is transparent and open
to everyone.
We're looking to collaborate with you in this committee
to create maps that, first, preserve communities
of interest, second, ensure that communities of color
can elect candidates of their own choice,
of their own preference, and then
to create majority minority districts
or multiracial coalition districts, and then finally,
to even the population of districts
based on incarceration rates within allowable deviations.
By the end of this process, we hope
to share with this committee a statewide unity
map that represents the views and interests
of a broad coalition.
We are collaborating with trusted grassroots leaders,
civil rights and immigrants rights organizations,
philanthropists, researchers, and political scientists,
and data experts.
And we plan to work with thousands of ordinary citizens
to ensure that people are involved
in a participatory redistricting process.
We so look forward to this partnership
with this committee to draw fair maps that serve our communities
in the next decade.
Thank you for your collaboration and partnership,
and I look forward to hearing from my colleagues
in this coalition.
Thank you, Beth.
The next member of the panel would be who?
This is Rahsaan.
I think I'll go next.
Good morning, Chair Brownsberger and Chair Moran.
Thank you both so much and to the members of this august
body.
I'm excited.
I'm a little giddy just thinking about
the geographic representation here
and how important that is to redistricting,
but also the racial and ethnic diversity of this commission
are so important to this process.
So thank you for your time, your interest
in this, your commitment in earnest to this work.
My name is Rahsaan Hall.
I am the director of the Racial Justice
Program for the American Civil Liberties Union
of Massachusetts.
ACLU is proud to be a part of the Drawing Democracy
Coalition, and I personally am proud to be
a part of it this time, as I was 10 years ago
when I was deputy director at the Lawyers Committee
for Civil Rights, now Lawyers for Civil Rights.
And that process really left a good impression on me,
and it is my hope that it is met again this time.
When redistricting is conducted properly,
district lines are redrawn to reflect the population change.
And it's important, as Beth mentioned,
for voters of color to be able to elect candidates
of their choice.
And 10 years ago, Massachusetts lawmakers
increased the number of districts where voters of color
were able to elect candidates of their choice.
I think Representative Moran made
a very compelling and moving statement to that effect.
And given the shift in demographics,
it's important that we account for that.
And so this year we look forward to working with this committee
to ensure that our state's maps are
drawn fairly and proportionately and equitably.
Redistricting is a key racial equity issue.
It's so key in ensuring that appropriate resources get
to communities that have been historically
marginalized and overlooked.
But it's also important in getting people of color, voters
of color, but specifically Black and Latinx people, voters,
to turn out and vote.
A part of what redistricting does
is help overcome voter apathy and cynicism.
When voters in communities of color
are unable to elect the candidate that represents
their values, their interests, their concerns
and their desires for their community,
to help them build the vision of the world
that they want to live in, the community
becomes disillusioned.
And when those candidates never succeed,
year after year, election after election, because of dilution
whether of the voting bloc, whether intentionally
or unintentionally, it not only frustrates the voters,
but it can lead to a decline in voter turnout
and a subsequent lack of representation
and responsiveness to the concerns of the people
in those very communities.
And we've seen it before, you know.
Black Political Task Force v. Galvin,
when black voters were packed into the then 6th Suffolk
district, which covered Dorchester and Mattapan.
And after that packing, the then 11th Suffolk
became a majority white district.
And, you know, that wasn't the experience the last cycle.
And that experience back in 2001 had
some pretty grave consequences.
But in 2011, that process, that was led by former Senator Stan
Rosenberg and Chair Moran, again,
was open and transparent and accessible and engaging.
And as a member of the Drawing Democracy Coalition,
our expectations then were not only met but exceeded,
and we are hoping to see the same thing this session.
So looking forward to continuing to work with you all,
and really encouraged by what we're seeing so far.
Thank you so much, Rahsaan.
Let's see, is Pam next?
Pam Wellman?
Yep.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Moran, Chairman Brownsberger,
and members of the committee, it is so great
to be here with you all today and see so many
faces from 10 years ago.
My name is Pam Wilmot.
I am now Vise President of State Operations for a Common Cause.
We are a national non-profit with chapters
across the country, and we advocate
for free and fair elections, open, accountable government,
and full equitable participation by all.
This is probably the most important committee
that is happening this year.
Redistricting is really the process
by which government determines who can vote for whom,
and even though we had a great experience--
and I'll talk about that in a minute--
throughout its history, this process
has been one that has been plagued by controversy.
And I've been asked to sort of put this in context.
We all know that in 1812 the Massachusetts governor,
Elbridge Gerry, signed a plan that pundits
said looked like a salamander, and hence
the idea of gerrymandering.
And that process was actually honed in the South
to disenfranchise black voters, as well
as other places in the country of course,
and then various places at various times
to disenfranchise members of minority parties,
whether they're Democrats or Republicans.
And then as technological tools increase,
the sophistication of that process
became even more problem-- well, not more problematic,
but more subtle.
And it still exists to this day.
As Rahsaan mentioned, even here in Massachusetts
we've had our troubles in 2004, and in 1993 Federal District
Court struck down our state redistricting plans,
or at least one of them, finding them
in violation of the Federal Voting Rights Act.
But things were very different last time around.
In the last cycle, the legislature really and you
all did a terrific job.
Common Cause and Drawing Democracy Coalition
were so pleased with the transparent and collaborative
process this committee engaged in 2011
and that we are starting off in again this time around.
As you know, I've been a close observer of the Massachusetts
legislative process for over 25 years, and I like to say,
and I think it's no exaggeration,
that the redistricting process was the most transparent piece
of legislation that has been adopted
in the legislature in 25 years.
And the maps produced and the process
by which they were released accomplish
all the goals that we had been advocating for.
Representation of communities of color, compact districts,
keeping municipal boundaries together,
maximal transparency and public participation.
I particularly point out the two week public comment period
after the maps were released.
It was unique for legislation in my experience,
and very laudable.
It gave our groups and the Drawing Democracy Coalition
and many others the opportunity to weigh in and suggest
changes, some of which were adopted
to make the process and the maps better.
Having the map making tools on the web,
holding all the hearings that were
attended by over 3,000 people, was a really significant
achievement.
In terms of the actual maps, seeing the increase
in number of districts where communities of color
were in the majority were significantly increased
and made a historic impact in historically disenfranchised
communities being able to elect representatives
of their choice.
All of these factors--
and of course we also increased the compactness
of the districts and minimized the number of communities
that were split--
all these factors contributed to Massachusetts
receiving an A grade for our redistricting process
from the Center for Public Integrity.
That is really something I think you all
should be very proud of.
And quite simply, if you do as good a job
as you did last time, I think we'll be doing very well.
So, specifically adhering to the same principles of transparency
and openness, open door policy, holding all the public hearings
we were talking about, accepting public maps,
having tools to facilitate that, your website
that you just released, having significant public comment
periods even after body maps are released,
adhering to strict map making criteria--
such as allowing disenfranchised communities
adequate representation, combatness, continuity,
population equality, grouping communities of interest
and maintaining municipal boundaries--
and then just choosing those things--
public input, transparency, map making criteria--
over other things that sometimes are easier to hold,
which is the people that you know directly.
So thank you again for your work in the past.
And for this time around, we look forward
to working with you, and I know you're
going to get an A grade again this year.
Thank you.
May it be so.
That is our goal.
Thank you.
Let's see, next up is who?
Is that--
Well, can I-- I have Bud Williams just joined us.
Can I introduce Bud Williams?
Please.
Representative Bud Williams of Springfield.
He is the chair of the Racial Equity Civil Rights
and Inclusion Committee.
He hails from Springfield.
Bud Williams, want to say hi to everybody?
Yeah, I do apologize.
I just received the link like 10 minutes ago.
So one of those list problems, I think.
But thank you all for doing the meeting.
Thank you.
Yep, happy to have you, Bud.
Yep.
Let's see.
Eva Millona?
Good morning.
Thank you Chairman Brownsberger, Chairman Moran,
distinguished members of the committee.
Thank you for allowing me to testify
and thank you so much for holding
this very important hearing.
My name is Eva Millona.
I am the president and CEO of Massachusetts Immigrant
and Refugee Advocacy Coalition, representing
over 130 institutional members across our commonwealth.
MIRA is also a key partner of Drawing Democracy Coalition
and was deeply involved in 2020 Census Advocacy.
I had the privilege of chairing the state wide 2020 Census
Complete Count Committee.
10 years ago, we enjoyed a strong partnership
with the committee, and we are confident that our partnership
will be even stronger this time around.
Today, I would outline some of the ways
we hope to collaborate throughout the redistricting
process, which will have great consequences
for immigrant communities for the next decade,
both for ensuring an accurate and fair distribution
of resources and for facilitating
the election of immigrants and people of color to office.
In Massachusetts, where one in five state representatives
is a foreign-born, it is critical to the well-being
of everyone that the state and local government
reflect the diversity of our great state.
We faced immense challenges in ensuring the 2020 census count,
including immigrant communities, in the midst
of a pandemic both viral and political
that continues to unfold.
We must apply lessons from our census work
for the redistricting process, particularly the importance
of meeting immigrant communities where they
are with multilingual, culturally competent outreach
and education, and the real message on why
they should participate and why is that so important.
MIRA respectfully requests that this committee
hold accessible public hearings that prioritize gateway
cities, Boston, and rural Massachusetts, and use
closed captioning to address linguistic barriers
of the foreign born community.
We look forward to partnering with you
to ensure the participation of our commonwealth's
many immigrant communities.
We also respectfully request, when
drawing the new district this committee will consider
the Drawing Democracy Coalition unity map to ensure that people
of color, low-income people, and immigrants
will have their voices heard.
Overall, we seek a transparent process with data and mapping
tools that are widely available, easy to use,
and translated into the languages
most commonly spoken in our state.
The best way to ensure that immigrants
have a seat at the table throughout this process
is to partner with trusted community organizations
like our members and the Drawing Democracy Coalition.
We know our communities best, and we have earned their trust.
We look forward to our continuing collaboration
throughout this process.
Together, we can elevate the voices
of those who are most underrepresented
and ensure a more equitable and accountable democracy.
Thank you again for the amazing work that you are doing
and for the opportunity to speak to you today.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Also on this panel, the League of--
is that Elizabeth Foster-Nolan, please?
Yes, good morning.
Thank you to the Redistricting Committee, the Chair, Senator
William Brownsberger, and Representative Mike Moran
as well as other members of this distinguished
committee for hosting this public hearing,
and for their commitment to engaging
grassroots organizations throughout this entire process.
My name is Elizabeth Foster-Nolan.
I'm a co-president of the League of Women
Voters of Massachusetts.
My other co-president, Judy Zaunbrecher, who many of you
know, was unable to attend today and sends her apologies,
but she will be back at the next meeting.
We are also a very proud member of the Drawing Democracy
Coalition, and are pleased to be part of that organization
and pleased to be able to testify today.
The League of Voters of Massachusetts
supports continuing and enhancing
the wonderful redistricting process that
was implemented by the Joint Committee
on Redistricting in 2011.
The process included 12 open hearings
across the state to solicit public testimony
on the division of the commonwealth
and to congressional, legislative, and governor
council districts, and 4 public hearings on the proposed
redistricting maps.
The League urges the committee to conduct at least this number
of hearings in 2021.
The League also encourages the committee
to use the open meeting law standards for the committee's
work.
Full disclosure of the process and the timelines
encourages the public participation
in this redistricting process.
We were very happy to see the launch of the website that
happened, as we believe that the website does need
to be designed, and from the brief look
that I was able to take, it is a public-facing website,
which is great.
Because we believe this will encourage unbiased testimony
by citizens at large, representatives
of public interest groups, and we'll also
be able to have members of historically
underserved communities provide testimony
and be aware of the redistricting process
throughout Massachusetts.
And as you had said you were doing,
providing the information in a variety of languages that
represent the diverse communities in Massachusetts
will be a huge asset to this redistricting process.
We believe that also we need to be
able to provide hearings that can be attended
for those residents with limited access
to broadband and transportation.
And also ensuring access to people with disabilities
is important so these communities also
feel welcome to participate in the process.
And seeing the website, that's great that this has started,
and we would encourage you just to, as we have seen--
you know, these websites evolve, and it sounds
like that's already happening.
So thank you for starting that process already.
We understand that currently the impact of COVID-19
has severely limited any ability to have hearings in person.
We would hope that that can change,
and we would encourage the committee
to work to ensure fair and equal access to virtual hearings
and to hold in-person hearings with the public
as soon as our public health officials say that is OK to do.
We understand that the late release of the 2020 census data
creates uncertainty and pressure on the ability
to have this redistricting process work the way
everyone hopes it should work.
We encourage the committee to maintain
a plan that includes public comment periods on the proposed
maps developed using that US Census data.
The legislative and the governor's council districts
that are adopted by the legislature
will provide the fundamental basis
for representative government in Massachusetts through 2032.
An open and transparent process that
encourages broad public input should
result in unbiased maps that provide
effective representation of racial and linguistic
minorities and fair representation
for all residents of Massachusetts.
The process will also create public confidence
in the final maps.
The League of Women Voters represents
47 leagues across the state, from Cape Cod
to the Berkshires.
We will encourage our members to participate in the process,
help publicize the hearing schedule that you are putting
out to the public, and we will be offering training
to the public on redistricting, the process, how it works,
and how the public can participate
and join in on this important redistricting process.
We support the open and transparent processing
and doing all you can do.
We understand this is a challenging year,
and we do appreciate that fact and understand
that this is all going to be a little bit different.
But we believe that this will be a very good process.
We thank you for your consideration of our testimony
and allowing us to testify this morning,
and we do we look forward to working
with you in a collaborative way as we move forward
with the redistricting process.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
OK, so this is the first panel.
We could stop here and take questions or responses,
comments from the members of the committee.
Why don't we do that?
Questions from any members of the committee?
Well, I'll tell you what.
I'll ask a question.
I'd just be interested to hear you--
I was listening very carefully to the words you used and I
want to make sure I'm getting them--
about the criteria that you're sort
of urging the committee to consider as we draw districts.
And I'd direct that to any member of the panel,
and you can jump in and trip over each other.
Don't hesitate to do that, it's fine.
I know it's a little difficult to coordinate, hey,
who's talking.
But just jump in, from the members of the panel.
All right.
Great question, Senator.
So first, we want to thank the Senate President
and the Speaker of the House for fulfilling
one of our major requests, which was
to appoint a geographically and demographically
diverse committee.
And we definitely feel that that request
has been met in a very serious and comprehensive way.
A few of the recommendations that we make,
in addition to following, of course, the Voting Rights Act
section two, and also the Equal Protection Clause,
include creating districts of opportunity whenever possible,
providing racial and language minorities who
constitute less than a majority of the district's voting age
population with an opportunity to substantially influence
the outcome of an election.
I think one of the things that we care most about
is that districts are not drawn to dilute
the current or potential political power
of racial and language minorities in Massachusetts.
Those are some of the top level interests of the Drawing
Democracy Coalition.
I'd welcome any of my colleagues in the Coalition
to jump in and share more.
So I think Beth said it really well.
That is top level, all of those considerations.
And then of course, you do have population considerations
that come out of the litigation, particularly
on the congressional side.
You know, some of these--
part of the problem of redistricting
is some of the criteria can conflict with each other,
and that's why it's important to have
a sense of what's important.
So grouping communities of interest,
ensuring that racial and language minorities have
the representation that they deserve,
maximizing the influence districts
as well as majority districts but not,
you know, going overboard with packing, which
is a problem in and of itself.
Compactness, continuity, and to the extent
that it's not conflicting with those other considerations,
maintaining those boundaries of our communities themselves.
Rahsaan, do you have anything you would add?
No, I think you all captured it.
Thank you.
I do see that Senator Gobi has her hands up.
I didn't quite catch that the first time around.
You do have the ability to put your hand up,
so that's an option for you.
But as members of the panel, if I fail to see you,
don't hesitate to just unmute yourself and jump in
and we'll deal.
Senator Gobi?
Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you everyone
that's come in to testify.
And Pam, I was one of those faces from 10 long years ago,
too, when you were mentioning.
And I always enjoy the little history that you give,
because as you probably know with Elbridge Gerry,
Gerry was the name of one of the towns in my 28 town district,
and it is now called Phillipston because of gerrymandering.
I just had a question.
Elizabeth, you mentioned in your testimony
about training [INAUDIBLE] that the League might be looking
to do for the general public.
And I didn't know if you could talk a little bit more
about [INAUDIBLE].
Did you-- there was a little--
I believe the question was, you wanted
to get a little bit more information about the training?
Correct.
I just wanted-- you're breaking up a little bit,
so I just want to make sure that I address your question.
I apologize.
Yes, that was it.
That's OK.
Yes, we are looking to provide information to the public
through the various Leagues across the state,
as well as, through the state, to educate people
on the redistricting process and how
they can get involved so they understand
that this is happening.
We were very involved in the census
and provided education to people on that about how
to get out the census.
So we have already started this process, actually.
We have had, for our Leagues, we did a webinar
on the redistricting process.
And on April 29 we will be having
a day that is devoted to redistricting
across Massachusetts, actually, and it's
going to be across the United States
with the League of Women Voters of the US for the People
Powered Fair Maps.
So our goal is to work with our Coalition members
so they're aware of these various trainings that we have,
and make them aware for other people who may not
be part of those coalitions.
So people understand and we can encourage
them to again testify, to follow this,
and to present any information they
may have to this committee.
Because we believe that public participation is important,
but also we need to educate people
so that they can provide that public comment.
Other questions from members of the committee?
Thank you.
And Mr. Chair, just--
You're back on mute.
You're all set.
I'm taking hands, all set.
I see Sarah Peake with a question.
Thank you, Mr Chairman.
I think we need to get Senator Gobi more robust broadband out
in her neck of the woods, but that's
for a different committee to work on.
The testimony that this panel has given
has really raised a question in my mind
in that, because of COVID, we're doing this differently
this year, we're probably not going to do as much, if any,
going from region to region to region to hold these hearings,
but we'll be doing them in a format like this.
And I'm curious about, you know, the idea
of translating what we are saying
into a different language.
If we're going to be targeting hearings for different regions,
do we have the technological ability
to have closed captioning in English, Spanish, Brazilian,
Portuguese, kind of all going on at the same time?
You know, because I'm thinking like down our way, Brazilian,
Portuguese is sort of the predominant second language
that many people speak, especially
in Representative Diggs district,
and really all across the Cape.
So it's as much a question for the committee and for LIS
as it is-- but the idea was sparked
by what this panel had to say.
I am not crystal clear in my mind
about how-- the closed captioning, of course,
is being done in English.
But once it's reduced to words, it
does become easier to run through a lot
of different translators.
So we'll have to understand how that works and kind of report
back to the committee on that.
I'm a little confused on that as I sit here.
If anybody wants to text me with an answer
to that question about how our closed captioning can
be translated, I'll report it as time goes on.
Other questions?
If I can just lift up from the chat one of our colleagues,
[? Rosette ?] [? Lee ?] from [INAUDIBLE] just indicated that
the committee might want to consider language-specific
hearings as well, especially when they're in locations where
there is a high concentration of a particular language that
might be worth considering.
Good suggestion.
And hiring Jasmine Gomez and other, like I said,
hire folks, interpreters.
And I think in consultation with the Drawing Democracy Coalition
we can certainly work to get as much information
to the committee about the needs of particular communities
and possibly work with you on that as well.
I think that's a doable suggestion, and one
we'll take back, for sure.
And appreciate the offer to assist with that.
OK, so you know what I'm going to do?
Because this is-- we have several panels in a row that
have sort of been, you know, working together.
I'm just going to leave everybody who's--
as we promote people into different panels,
we'll leave you on as panelists, as participating
in the Zoom visibly.
And that way you can answer continue
to answer questions as other things come out,
as your colleagues come on.
But I will enable the second panel of members now.
So we want to enable Jasmine Gomez.
I got it.
Andrew is helping me, but let me see what we got here.
Jasmine Gomez I got promoted to panelist.
Lydia Lowe.
Is Lydia here, already promoted?
Andrew's working with me at the same time, I think.
And Trevor?
Is everybody on?
So Jasmine, do you want to lead this off?
Or who is going to lead the second panel off?
Beth, you were muted.
I think you were saying something.
Jasmine is slated to lead this panel off.
They might be listed as Access Strategies?
This panel is supposed to be Jasmine Gomez, Lydia Lowe,
Isabella Gonzalez Webster, and Roberto Jimenez.
So as panelists I now do see Lydia.
And I don't know--
I do see Jasmine, but she just needs to unmute.
So I'm going to ask you to unmute, Jasmine, and--
I'm unmuted, thank you.
There you go.
All right, Jasmine.
Wonderful.
Sorry if my connection is a little bit slow.
I see it lagging on my end.
But let me know if y'all can't hear me,
I could turn off my video and keep my audio on at any point
as well.
You're doing well.
You're clear.
Wonderful.
So like others, I really just wanted
to start by thanking you all, Senator William Brownsberger,
Representative Mike Moran, as well as all
of the other members of the redistricting committee,
for hosting this public hearing.
Your commitment to engaging the community
has been really inspiring for me to see.
Even in just this hearing, the questions and the concerns
and the desires to know about how to make sure
the languages are all accessible and people
will be included in this process is really, really important,
and our ecosystem is better when we all come together.
My name is Jasmine Gomez.
I am the co-director of Access Strategies Fund which
is a family foundation in Cambridge, Massachusetts,
as well as the co-chair of the Drawing Democracy Fund.
And the Drawing Democracy Fund, we're
separate but deeply connected with
and coordinating with the Drawing Democracy Coalition.
We are the philanthropic partners
who have come together to support redistricting
efforts here in Massachusetts.
I just wanted to come in and talk
a little bit about why Access Strategies Fund has made
redistricting and civic engagement a priority
since its foundation.
A lot of this is things that people have already
said before, and it's really important
to reiterate that civic engagement is
key to providing power to communities
who have been historically marginalized
by systems of oppression.
So many of our black, indigenous,
and immigrant communities have experienced
barrier over barrier over barrier
to accessing power in our current systems.
And we see even now how extreme economic inequality has pushed
so many BIPOC, low-income, and immigrant communities
to migrate and move to other towns, cities, neighborhoods
within Massachusetts.
We know that if our communities aren't represented properly,
their power will continue to be diluted in this process.
We really deeply support and trust
the work of the grassroots leaders who have come together
to create a fair and just redistricting process that
centers those communities who have
been historically underrepresented
in our systems.
The Drawing Democracy Fund is involved really deeply
with the Drawing Democracy Coalition,
and we just want to reiterate some
of the points of collaboration that
can happen between this committee as well
as the Drawing Democracy Coalition.
And these are points that Beth has spoken about earlier.
One is to use the data from the 2020 Census
to create district maps that maximize
the political power of people of color, low-income people,
and immigrants.
Another is to educate and mobilize community members
to participate in these public forums
and provide feedback on district maps, including
making these accessible, which you all have already
started talking about.
Another is democratizing access to data and mapping tools--
sorry if you hear the music outside--
to increase the community voice in redistricting.
And the last is just advocating for a redistricting process
that is transparent and open to everybody.
We really deeply value the deep work
that our whole ecosystem brought together in 2011, when
we had foundations, grassroots groups, and the members
of this committee who came together and had this shared
commitment to ensuring a transparent and fair process,
and this hearing marks a really beautiful and important step
to continuing that partnership into 2021.
We're grateful for the opportunity
to share our collective goals and concerns
around the redistricting process,
and we look forward to continuing to work together
to elevate the voices of those who are most impacted
and ensure a more equitable and accountable democracy.
Now pass it to Lydia.
Thank you very much.
Shall I go ahead?
Please.
Thank you.
Thank you for this opportunity.
And I'm testifying-- my name is Lydia Lowe,
and I'm testifying on behalf of Chinese Progressive Political
Action, which is a political advocacy organization that
works to engage the Chinese community of Eastern
Massachusetts in political and civic action
to advance the cause of racial equality.
As we embark on another round of redistricting,
I want to bring attention to the API community's population
growth, which is among the most rapidly expanding
in the commonwealth.
We have an estimated 514,000 some APIs in Massachusetts,
and 78% of API speak a language other than English at home,
including 197,000 and upwards Chinese, about 131,000 Indians,
60,000 Vietnamese, 30,000 Cambodians, 30,000 Koreans,
and 26,000 Filipinos.
But while our communities are growing rapidly,
they remain small enough in number
that it's important to us that district lines not
crack our communities into different districts
as has happened in the past.
In order to ensure that we have adequate data for this task,
it's also important that we advance
the cause of data equity, which provides for data collection
not only by race but also ethnic categories that
can provide us with critical linguistic data as well.
And as I said, the vast majority of API's speak a language
other than English at home.
So I particularly want to underscore
the issue of how redistricting directly impacts citizens
voting rights, particularly for limited English proficient
voters in our communities.
Learning about issues and candidates
requires a little effort for every voter,
but many people don't realize the additional effort that's
required for some of our community members
to exercise those rights.
For example, elderly Chinese-speaking voters
are accustomed to bringing a sample ballot with them
to the polls that they have completed beforehand
to help them through the process of marking
the ballot correctly.
What they need to do is they usually count down
the number of circles on the ballot
to find the right circle for their candidate of choice,
and then take their sample ballot
and compare the first letter of the name
with the first letter of the name on their sample ballot
to check if it's the right one.
And that's because the Chinese language does not use
the alphabet that's used by the English language,
so many elderly voters actually cannot read the candidate names
unless they're transliterated into Chinese characters.
So in Boston we have actually passed a home rule petition
that allows for transliteration of names on a bilingual ballot.
But if you're a Chinese voter in Quincy or Malden
or a Cambodian voter in Lowell, then you're out of luck
and you don't enjoy that right, so you have a quote unquote,
"bilingual ballot" that actually doesn't include the candidate
names.
So if you imagine yourself going in to vote
and trying to mark a ballot that's entirely
in Chinese characters by comparing
the characters on the ballot with a guide
that you brought along in your pocket,
you can imagine that it takes these voters a little bit more
time to exercise their voting rights.
And the other important fact that you need to know
is that the voting population in Boston precincts
is wildly imbalanced, because Boston
has been exempted from redrawing ward and precinct
lines since 1920.
So in the November 2020 election,
where the average voting population for precinct
was about 1,694 voters, in Chinatown's ward
three, precinct eight, the registered voting population
was 7,059.
So barriers for limited English proficient voters
are further exacerbated by this large precinct size,
meaning that in a popular presidential election
you may be waiting hours to go and exercise your rights.
And in this particular precinct in Chinatown,
where 53% of the voters are Asian Pacific Islanders,
the average annual household income is $28,600,
and 31% of the voters have less than a ninth grade education.
So I think these are just, you know,
this example illustrates a few of the different concerns
that I wanted to bring the committee's attention to as you
think about redistricting, that I also
urge your attention to issues of and your support of legislation
on data equity on reprecincting Boston and voting
rights for limited English proficient citizens
with non-alphabetic languages such as Chinese
and [INAUDIBLE] that require transliteration of candidate
names on bilingual ballots.
All of these as closely related issues
to safeguard citizens' voting rights.
Thank you.
Before we proceed, could Chairman Moran,
you've got another member who's joined you?
Thank you very much, Chairman Brownsberger.
Joining us from Dorchester from the 13 Suffolk district,
he's the chair of Federal Stimulus and Census Oversight,
which is a very important committee
as it relates to our job.
The gentleman from Dorchester, Dan Hunt, want to say hello?
Maybe they don't want to say hello.
Well, that's Dan Hunt.
Back to you.
Very good.
Thank you so much, Lydia Lowe.
Isabel Gonzales next?
Hi, thank you.
Good morning and thank you, Redistricting Committee Chair
Senator Williams Brownsberger and Representative Mike Moran,
as well as other members of this committee
for hosting these public meetings, public hearings.
And my daughter just came down as I'm about to give my speech.
She wasn't down here this whole time, I apologize.
Don't worry about it.
My name is Isabel Gonzalez Webster,
and I'm the executive director of Worcester Interfaith.
We are a membership organization of over 26 congregations
and community organizations in Worcester,
as well as conveners and members of numerous coalitions
from the Worcester Coalition for Education Equity, Racial
Justice and Police Reform Coalition,
co-chairs of the Worcester Jobs Fund,
co-chair of the City Manager's Diversity
and Construction Monitoring Task Force, members
of the Massachusetts Department of Public Health Equity Task
Force, among other coalitions, and lastly
a proud member of the Drawing Democracy Coalition.
Redistricting is important to Worcester
because people of color lack political representation
in the city.
This affects policy, budgetary, and staffing decisions
that are made throughout the city and state.
This affects the quality of services
to our communities of color and immigrant communities.
According to the past census data,
Black, Latino, and foreign born populations
continue to grow in the city while the white population
continues to decrease.
However, political representations
of community of color is minimal to say the least.
This is not due to lack of civic engagement of our communities,
but due to structural design that continue to polarize
communities of color's vote.
For example, our communities have
advocated for policy changes in Worcester public schools
for decades that have impacted our students and families.
Worcester public school students population
is made up of 70% students of color,
yet we have huge educational gaps between students of color
and white students across the board.
We have an all at-large school committee electoral system.
All of our school committee members are white,
and 5 out of the 7 live in 2 out of the 50
districts of Worcester.
I'll say that again.
5 out of the 7 live in 2 out of the 50 districts in Worcester.
How is that fair representation?
We do not have a school committee
that represents the diverse population of our student body.
Hence we have had to take the extreme measure
of filing a voting rights lawsuit against the City
of Worcester.
Our state delegation, made up of two senators and five state
reps, has never, never had a person
of color on the delegation.
This could be due to the fact that three
of our seven delegation seats solely represent
the City of Worcester.
The other four seats have parts of Worcester
and then are made up of mostly white, conservative towns,
which means that these four other seats have
other municipalities that they're responsible for
as well as Worcester.
This way of drawing our city makes
it hard to have representatives and senators of color.
A great example came up in this hearing this morning.
Our great rep-- excuse me.
Our great rep, Jim O'Day, who I've
worked with for over 15 years, is on this committee.
And there was even a joke in the beginning of his introduction
about whether or not he represented
Worcester or Central Mass.
He represents Worcester and does an amazing job,
and thank you Rep O'Day for that,
but he also represents West Boston.
We have a huge problem in Worcester,
and that is why there is huge mistrust and apathy
amongst communities of color with our government.
We are committed to drawing a state wide map that
keeps our communities whole and increases the numbers
of majority BIPOC districts.
If we work together, we can create districts that maximize
our communities' chances of authentic, authentic
representation, and open new opportunities
for building power.
We will be engaging the community of Worcester
in participating in hearings, educating
the community on the redistricting process,
providing trainings, and participating
in the process of redistricting by identifying communities
of interest, et cetera.
We will do this in communities of color, immigrant
communities, low-income communities,
and in multiple languages and in culturally accessible methods.
Thank you very much.
Senator.
I just wanted to--
I just feel like I need to just point something out.
I can't really take any responsibility
or have no authority over the municipal districts
that they draw in Worcester.
But I can tell you that we created a majority minority
district 10 years ago, which is the 15th Worcester district,
and it was the only one we could draw in Worcester.
Now I am committed to looking at those numbers again 10
years later and see what they look like, but you know,
I can just tell you from the seat
that we were sitting in 10 years ago,
there was only one opportunity to draw a majority minority
district in Worcester, and we did it.
There was an open election after that and the person that won
wasn't of a minority, but we did everything
we could do to have them have their voices heard
in that district.
They just happened to choose somebody
that was not a minority.
But I am committed to you and to Worcester and, of course,
with the guidance of your delegation
out there with Jimmy O'Day and John Mahoney on this committee,
to take another look at that and see if we
can make that even stronger.
And if I can say, thank you for that.
I think Mary Keefe is wonderful, and again we
work really closely with Mary, and she
is dedicated to a lot of the issues
that communities of color care about.
I think there's other issues around the municipal kind
of communities that are in her district.
But we appreciate that and we welcome
continued conversations.
So thank you, chairman.
Thank you.
Let's see.
I believe the next member of this panel is Roberto Jimenez?
Hi, everyone.
All right.
Thank you so much, Chairmans Brownsberger and Moran
and to all the members of the committee
for the opportunity to speak to you about the importance
of the redistricting process to the representation of BIPOC
communities in Massachusetts.
And thank you so much also for the work
that you all have been doing, some of you since the last time
that we went through this process.
My name is Roberto Jimenez Rivera.
I am a member of the Chelsea School Committee
and an organizer for the Boston Teachers
Union, which is a member of the Drawing Democracy Coalition.
Last time we went through this process,
we were excited to see the 20 majority minority districts,
or districts of opportunity, which
gave the opportunity to communities of color
to elect people like Representative Moran
from Lawrence, who spoke at the beginning of the hearing
about the importance of this process
to elevating the voices of the community in Lawrence
and elsewhere in this district and to make
his election possible.
It also allowed for the election of many other
of the representatives and senators of color, some of whom
are on this call today.
It was a really great opportunity
to increase engagement of communities of color
over the last decade, which we're
super, super grateful for.
However, people of color across Massachusetts
have still had a hard time getting
people of color elected, which is shown in the fact
that of those 20 districts, only 9 have elected representatives
of color.
And based on the conversations that I
have with my constituents in Chelsea and other POC,
other people of color in communities like Chelsea,
we really want to elect more legislators of color.
Because they often not only represent our values,
but they understand also the unique combination of
struggles that people of color live
through because of lived experiences
that they have had themselves, and not from having
heard from constituents.
That diversity of experiences is not the only important factor,
but I believe it is a very important one.
And we've seen that when we are given the opportunity
to elect people of color, we do, as we saw in Chelsea when
we moved from an at-large city council system
to one that has districts now, and where
we have a majority of our councilors
and a majority of our school committee
as well were people of color.
The challenge is that having residents of color
does not mean having voters of color.
When I knock doors in Chelsea for my election,
most of the people whose doors I knocked
are not Chelsea parents, whom I consider
to be a special constituency, because as a school committee
member, right, their children are
the ones who get the most direct benefit from our schools.
And the challenge comes because many, many, many of our Chelsea
schools parents are not voters because they are not citizens.
And so I come to my point that having a district where
a majority of people are people of color
does not mean that there is a critical mass of voters
of color.
And so I think that it's really important
that, as this committee is thinking
about further empowering communities of color,
that you think not just about the number of districts
of opportunity, but to what the voting
population in those districts looks like,
to ensure that these communities are not just engaged
but that they actually have the power
to elect someone from their community to represent them.
As for my role with the Boston Teachers Union, you know,
we really want to participate in this process
because it's important to us that the community we
serve in Boston have accurate representation, as well.
81% of Boston Public School students are students of color.
I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that in Chelsea
that number is over 92%.
And so this connects to the importance of empowering
communities of color.
But also as part of the Drawing Democracy Coalition,
it is important for us to lift the voices
of all students and their families
so that we can maintain these communities of interest
together.
Of course, this is not the only important constituency,
but as our young people are the future of the commonwealth,
and students who are today in the fourth grade,
some of them even in the third grade,
will have the opportunity to vote before we do
this whole process again, we are also part of this coalition
so that we can work together to come up with a map
that prioritizes equity for all communities
not just in this moment in time, but thinking about the next 10
years and what that's going to bring
to us and the commonwealth.
Thank you.
Thank you for that very much.
OK, so let's see.
Those are the members of--
is there a fourth member of this panel?
Jasmine and Lydia, Isabel, Roberto.
OK.
Questions for the members of the panel?
Let me make sure I'm not missing hands here.
Panelists.
Senator Gomez just raised his hand.
Thank you.
Senator Gomez, please.
Thank you, Chairman Brownsberger, Chairman Moran.
I just wanted to just lift up kind
of what I've heard in the last testimony that, you know--
myself, obviously, coming from a community of color
and just recently being elected to the state senate, that
from the last time this really great opportunity
to create these districts of color,
my district was created to be a district of color.
And respectfully, because of some
of the other testimony that I heard
from the faith-based organization from, I think,
it was Isabel, that looking at the demographic also
and the statistics on who's actually
voting-- because if there's a low voter turnout in some
of these districts, realistically
the ones that kind of partner with the towns and cities,
how the lines are created, do create a disfunctionality
in a way in the access.
And I think that that's something I just
wanted to lift up that I heard.
And honestly it did take 10 years for a person of color,
after the first time that we created
this district, for a person of color to be elected,
which I can honestly say was myself.
But I just wanted to say that I appreciated the last panel
and I completely understood the direction that they were moving
into, an understanding that some communities of color
don't necessarily have a great voting population
because they're very highly populated when it comes
to the immigrant community.
And that is all.
Thank you, Chairman Brownsberger.
Thank you very much.
Other?
Is there anybody else who wanted to question or comment on that?
I guess I want to just throw out a question
and hear people comment, and it could
be from this panel and the prior panel.
You know, when there is this--
there's a balance, right, between sort of packing
and creating an effective minority [INAUDIBLE] And if you
take--
how do you suggest the committee try to strike that balance,
if you understand my question?
I mean we could take all the minorities in a community--
let's say there's enough minorities
to create two majority minority districts,
but maybe neither one of them is going
to be effective in the sense of electing people of color
because the concentration isn't great enough.
How do you advise us to be balancing those considerations?
Do you follow me?
I'll jump in.
I think one of the concerns is ensuring
that, when we're looking at the districts,
looking at CVAP data, or Citizen Voting Age Population,
in the creation of the district, because the ability
of communities of color to elect a candidate of their choice
depends on who's voting in the district.
That said, I think it's also important to understand
whether or not that community votes in a bloc.
I think it's easy to make assumptions about,
you know, Black folks always vote for the same folks,
or the Latinx community is always going
to back a particular candidate.
And generally that trend's true.
But having that understanding-- and so when you're thinking
about the districts and creating majority minority districts,
such that communities of color can elect a candidate
of their choice--
excuse me.
I think maybe kind of what played out in Worcester
is that, you know, is it a citizen--
or is it just voting age population
to make it majority minority?
Is it citizen voting age population
to make it majority minority?
I think those are the questions to explore.
And then when we're looking at creating more districts, how
much dilution is going to occur if you're siphoning off votes
or population to create a second or an additional majority
minority district, and in so doing, removing those votes.
What is the rest of that--
are you leaving behind still a majority minority district?
Or are you leaving behind a coalition district
that is still going to enable voters of color
to elect the candidate of their choice?
So those are some of the considerations
that I think the committee should take into account when
trying to tackle this issue.
That's helpful.
Thank you.
Rahsaan, you remember from 10 years ago,
it's just one of the things that we did,
and we can look at this again and see if it's in effect.
You know, it was almost like 60% was the number we looked at.
If you got to 60%, that was a strong number.
And you're right, look at the citizens of voting age
information.
But, you know, you touched on it a little bit
there, assuming that people are going
to vote for somebody because they're Black,
they're going to vote for Black, Latino is gonna
vote for Latino, I mean, the most obvious sign of that
not happening was the district in Dorchester that
went from Tommy Finneran to Linda Forry to Dan Cullinane
to now Brandy Oakley.
So I mean, you know, you can't always
guarantee that that happens.
And you have just Liz Malia, her district.
You know, Liz is representing a majority minority
district for a very, very long time,
and they seem to like her representation.
So we may draw it--
I mean, to use the old analogy, we may draw it
but it might not come until another cycle goes by,
you know?
But I think the numbers we were looking at from 10 years ago
is, if we go got to around 60, that that was a good majority
minority district.
The one in Worcester we could only get to 54%.
But we thought it was, you also want to put something,
I think--
and again, this is open for discussion
because it's 10 years, it's a different session
and a different body.
But you also want to put some districts on a path to--
Exactly.
So it might not be strong, you know, today.
But if you look at history in the four
or five years previous to that and it keeps trending that way,
then it may not be 60 today but it could be
60 4 years from now, you know?
So those are the things I think we're going to look at.
And if anybody has any other data or suggestions,
we'd welcome them, you know.
And so to that point, I think population trends is worth
considering, right, to your point.
You know, we look at the Mass Congressional District 7,
right?
Y'all created that and it wasn't until 2018 that you get Ayanna
Pressley.
So we understand how that works.
I think the other thing--
to be clear, right, it's just not
about electing candidates of color, right?
Race can't be, unfortunately, or from the perspective
of the Constitution and Voting Rights Act,
can't be kind of the sole factor.
And so it's really about communities electing
a candidate of their choice.
If it just so happens to be a person of color,
that's even better.
And so, you know, you talk about Rep Malia, you know,
I think that's a perfect example of that.
And so to your point around the opportunity
districts, right, is there a strong coalition
of voters of color and white allies
that are voting in consistent voting patterns that
create an opportunity there?
So I think those are other votes to consider.
Thanks.
Let me follow that up a little bit.
How do you sort of think about the issue
of creating a majority minority district,
meaning that the percentage of non-Hispanic whites
is a minority, versus creating a district that is actually
a majority, let's say, non-Hispanic African-American,
or is Hispanic?
There are different considerations there.
Right.
And that's something as a coalition
that we have contemplated and had some conversations about,
and so ideally if you can have a single race majority minority
district, I think that is kind of the best case scenario, just
given the fact that folks of similar racial and ethnic
identities are inclined to vote similarly.
That said, we think it's important,
and I think this gets to this notion of opportunity
districts, of putting BIPOC groups together, right?
Black, indigenous, people of color, together in groups,
so long as it creates that opportunity for that district
to elect the candidate of their choice.
That those people in that district-- right, because there
are folks along ethnicities that have conservative viewpoints,
and there are some who are far more progressive than others.
And just kind of lumping all BIPOC folks together
isn't necessarily going to yield the type of results
that we want to see.
So looking at voting patterns in history
to create those opportunity districts,
even if it is a coalition, and not
kind of the traditional legal standard of coalition, which
is non-Hispanic white and one racial group,
but a BIPOC coalition district with possibly white allies
I think would also be good as well.
So long as it creates the outcome
of giving folks an opportunity to elect
a candidate [INAUDIBLE].
I want to chime in with just get a quick comment here as well.
I think an important part of when
thinking about building multiracial coalitions, right,
or even single race coalitions, thinking about--
even within the Latinx community,
there are different nationalities
within those communities.
And especially within the Asian-American community,
there are so many different nationalities
within those communities.
So I think part of it has to be listening to the people who
are organizing those communities to think about how they engage
with one another and make sure that, as we're building
those communities of interest, that it's not just like, oh,
it's all the Asian groups together, right?
And trying to dig deeper into that so that we
have a good understanding of how they might actually
vote together as a bloc.
I think that's really important, and I
think part of what we're trying to do through this coalition
is make sure that we are elevating those voices so
that we can make sure that that is also part of the process.
Well, we definitely are really looking forward
to your guidance throughout this process.
Thank you for those answers.
They are helpful.
Are there other questions from members
of the committee or any more comments
that this committee members would like to offer,
panelists would like to offer?
If not, let's get started on the third panel,
which is Janelle Dempsey and Alex Psilakis and [? Adjutha ?]
[? Ramon. ?] And I believe they've already been all
promoted.
So would you like to lead off, Janelle?
Yes.
Good afternoon.
I'd like to begin by thanking Senator Brownsberger,
Representative Moran, and the members of the committee
for hosting this hearing and for your commitment to engaging
community organizations throughout the redistricting
process.
My name is Janelle Dempsey I'm an attorney at Lawyers
for Civil Rights.
LCR protects and expands voting rights for people of color
and traditionally disenfranchised communities.
As part of this work, we, along with our dedicated partners
in the Drawing Democracy Coalition,
are proactively ensuring that the forthcoming redistricting
process across the commonwealth is fair, equitable,
transparent, and community driven.
LCR stands ready to offer legal expertise
and to empower communities of color
to participate in the process.
We will harness our pro bono network of attorneys
to bring legal support to ensure that the Voting Rights
Act and other legal protections are fully considered
in the line drawing process.
Coupled with strong ties to grassroots groups working
on the ground, we'll engage client communities
through education about the laws that protect their voting
strength, by democratizing access to mapping tools,
and by offering spaces to explore
the impact of redistricting on their communities.
LCR particularly welcomes the opportunity
to serve as a resource to the committee to ensure compliance
with the Voting Rights Act.
The VRA is a powerful tool to combat discrimination
and intimidation that can be used
to deny communities of color the right
to cast a meaningful ballot.
Specifically, section 2 of the VRA
prohibits any voting practice or procedure
that results in denial or abridgment,
or anyone's right to vote based on race, color, or minority
language status.
It prohibits laws or practices that deny minority voters
an equal opportunity to participate
in the political process and to elect representatives
of their choice.
This includes vote dilution, where electoral lines are drawn
in a way that dilutes the ability of communities of color
to elect candidates of their choice.
Over the years, LCR has filed numerous vote dilution
lawsuits, including redistricting challenges
at the state level, and lawsuits at the local level,
such as against the cities of Lowell and Worcester,
challenging their at-large municipal voting systems
that Isabel mentioned earlier.
For LCR and the communities of color
we represent, it is always our desire
to work with those who are drawing lines
to proactively guard against vote dilution.
In our view, it is far preferable
to have electoral lines drawn fairly and appropriately
in the first place rather than having
to go through the court system after the fact if they are not.
To that end, we hope to continue working with the committee
to proactively ensure compliance with voting rights laws
in this redistricting cycle.
This hearing marks a critical step in this partnership,
and we are grateful for the opportunity
to share with you our goals for the redistricting process.
Along with our Drawing Democracy Coalition partners,
we look forward to continuing to work together
to elevate the voices of communities of color
and immigrants to foster a more equitable and accountable
democracy.
Thank you very much.
We're glad for the expertise you're bringing to us.
We look forward to working with you.
Alex?
Sure.
Good afternoon, Chair Brownsberger, Chair Moran,
and esteemed members of the committee.
It is truly a pleasure to be speaking with you today.
My name is Alex Psilakis and I am
the policy and communications manager at Mass Vote.
As some of you may be aware, Mass Vote
is a non-partisan, non-profit, issue advocacy organization
dedicated to voting rights.
We are also a proud member of the Drawing Democracy
Coalition.
Today, we aim to speak briefly about the importance
of preserving and expanding voting
access during the redistricting process.
10 years ago, the committee did a superb job at this.
After considering public input for months,
the state adopted a map with 20 majority BIPOC house
legislative districts, three senate districts, and one
congressional districts.
All of these were immensely successful steps
taken to empower bipartisan immigrant voters that all
too often see their voices ignored
in the democratic process.
During this redistricting process,
it is critical that the committee build off
of this progress, creating additional majority BIPOC
districts.
According to research conducted by Boston University professor
Maxwell Palmer, at least five house districts
have become majority BIPOC in the last decade.
That's the 28th Middlesex, the 9th Hampton, 33rd Middlesex,
16th Worcester, and 1st Norfolk.
3 more, the 10th Plymouth, 15th Suffolk, and 16th Suffolk,
may possibly be redrawn as majority BIPOC districts,
or at least used as a starting point.
Two Senate districts, Middlesex and Suffolk district,
as well as the second Essex and Middlesex district,
are in a similar position.
These results reveal the broader demographic trends
that Massachusetts has experienced over the past 10
years.
The state's black population has risen to about 7%,
while its Hispanic population has risen to about 12%.
In all counties, except Dukes and Nantucket,
BIPOC populations grew at a higher rate
than white populations.
The committee must account for this
throughout the redistricting process.
Creating a just, fair, number of majority BIPOC districts.
In doing so, the committee may help
empower our Black and brown, low-income,
and immigrant voters by breaking down barriers to the ballot box
they traditionally and disproportionately face.
Along these lines, the committee must
ensure that malicious practices like cracking and packing
have no place in the redistricting process.
Thank you for all the work that you have done on redistricting
and all the work that lies ahead.
We especially appreciate your willingness
to listen to the needs and interests
of grassroots organizations like our own.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
And [? Adjutha ?] [? Ramon? ?] Oh, let's see.
Adjutha, it looks like you haven't been promoted yet.
I apologize.
Hang on a second.
There you go.
I apologize.
There you go.
We're not hearing you yet, but we see you.
Getting static, but no voice.
I'm just double checking how you're looking now.
Yeah, you should-- can you hear me?
Speak.
Try again.
Yes, can you hear me?
Now you look good.
Yep, there you go.
Thank you.
Sorry about that.
No problem.
Thank you, Chairmen Brownsberger and Moran
and distinguished members of the Joint Committee
on Redistricting.
Thank you for holding this hearing,
and it's a pleasure to speak before you today.
My name is [? Adjutha ?] [? Ramon. ?] I work at MIRA.
And as MIRA president and CEO Eva Millona
noted earlier today, MIRA is a partner of the Drawing
Democracy Coalition.
Part of my work at MIRA involves supporting Drawing Democracy
on data-related issues and monitoring
related federal developments.
Other testimony by partners in the coalition today
addressed ways that the coalition
hopes to collaborate with this committee
throughout the redistricting process.
My goal with this testimony is to outline
a specific timeline related challenge around data delivery,
and further highlight why collaboration will be so key.
As is undoubtedly well known to this committee,
the 2020 census was beset by numerous challenges,
and as a result of these challenges
the Bureau has been forced to shift its data release timeline
by approximately six months.
As of early April, the Bureau intends
to produce the detailed redistricting data
file, also known as the PL94-171 data file,
by September 30 of this year.
The Bureau has shared that this file may be available
as early as mid-August, although it would be in a less user
friendly format.
While this delay creates challenges
given state redistricting guidelines and statute,
it is also worth noting that the Bureau is taking this delay so
as to improve the quality of the data
that it ultimately produces.
With the additional time, the Bureau
will be able to subjected the data
to more rigorous internal analysis
and also to external evaluation, including from the nonpartisan
American Statistical Association.
The quality of census data is absolutely critical.
Directly and indirectly, census data
informs resource allocation to states and smaller geographies.
At the state level, the state Constitution of Massachusetts
mandates that the census provide the basis
for decennial redistricting, of course.
And in turn, the census results directly impact public health,
financial stability, and political power
of our communities.
Accurate quality data is critical to equitable
resourcing.
As one of the world's premier statistical agencies,
the Census Bureau produces a suite
of well-reputed data products about the American public.
These include periodic demographic and economic
surveys.
They also include the American Community Survey or the ACS.
This is an annual survey that collects detailed data
from respondents, including ancestry, income, and language
proficiency.
With the detailed data contained in ACS, in some ways
it provides the most insight into the American public
out of all of the Bureau data products.
However, it's also important to note that the ACS has
several important limitations.
One of these that the ACS uses slightly different residence
results from the census.
This will not impact many areas, but it
could impact some areas of Massachusetts,
particularly in the cape and islands.
Another limitation of the ACS is that it
uses significant statistical sampling.
To put this into perspective, the ACS
is distributed to only 3.5 million households.
Compare that with the 128.4 million households that
were covered in 2020 Census.
As a result of these limitations, and as the Bureau
itself has acknowledged, this makes
the ACS have large margins of errors for small geographies.
In turn, this makes the ACS unreliable for drawing
the precise contours of legislative districts.
I spent so much time discussing that because I
think it's important to contrast this with the decennial census.
The census is an actual headcount
of the American population.
The majority of the responses through the decennial census
are collected through direct self response,
and there's limited invitation that is involved.
This method of direct data collection
makes it a uniquely reliable data source.
And while preliminary work [INAUDIBLE]
can be done through the results of other data products
like the ACS, the actual line drawing will, I think,
need to wait until the release of the PL94-171 data
file in the fall of this year.
Given the state's statutory deadlines,
this will create a very tight window for legislative
and federal line drawing.
In turn, this makes it all the more critical
that there is early continued cooperation with this committee
well before the fall.
Thank you very much, the Joint Committee
on Redistricting, for beginning this collaboration
process so early.
I look forward to continued collaboration with you
and with Drawing Democracy Coalition in the months ahead.
Thank you.
We appreciate the expertise you're bringing to this,
and again, look forward to working with you.
So, questions from my colleagues.
But maybe I'll just start off with giving the opportunity
to the members of this panel to respond to the questions
that we were raising earlier.
I know you also bring special expertise
on the questions of the criteria we're using
and the subtleties of majority minority versus majority
African-American, majority Hispanic, et cetera,
and how we kind of balance and work with those issues.
If you'd like to comment on those.
I think one thing I would just like to say,
just jumping off of what Rahsaan said
is, I think it's a really good idea
to pay extra careful attention to the CVAP data
when you get it.
Because if you're creating a majority minority district that
has a very small voting able population,
then it's almost sort of a hollow move.
So I think paying close attention to that CVAP data
and really utilizing it when you can would be really, really
beneficial.
Thank you.
OK, if no further thoughts on that from this panel,
let me recognize Senator Hinds with a question.
Great, thanks.
And thanks, everyone.
This has been incredibly informative and important
conversations that we're having.
The last comments tie into this somewhat.
I think so far we've been focused on the district level
lens and centered on equal electoral opportunity,
especially for BIPOC communities,
and especially aware that equal opportunity may not currently
be enjoyed or historically.
I guess something that jumps out at me in this conversation
is, when you look at the objective of equal opportunity
in elections and then you look at the outcomes
in a place like the Massachusetts State Senate
and the percentage of representation
in the statewide legislative bodies,
it might be a lower percentage than what a given race
represents in the population.
And so I guess I'm wondering, you
know, in some cases it's probably due to concentrations
of population in a district.
And so that's one thing.
I guess, should we also be looking at, and maybe this
is already clear to everyone else, how
we achieve equal representation in the governing bodies
themselves?
And does that change the way we're
looking at the design of a district
so that you're kind of shaping the districts in a manner
that results in representation of the final numbers
of the bodies being elected, and not just the chances within one
district?
I'm not sure if that makes sense.
Anybody can pick that up and respond.
And I may not see your hand, so if you're
a panelist who wants to respond to that, feel free to--
I see Beth.
Go ahead, Beth, if you want to respond.
That's a great question, Senator Hinds,
about representation in the state house in aggregate.
I think something that we were trying to do--
I mean there is a concentration of communities of color because
of the histories of redlining and many other types
of structural forms of racism.
I think what we are trying to do is to make sure
that the communities of interest are well
preserved and represented within districts.
We need to walk this line between the criteria
put forth in the Voting Rights Act
and also the Equal Protection Clause in the 14th Amendment.
So I think what we're really trying
to do is understand what are the criteria that connect
communities, particularly in communities of color,
to ensure that the communities of interest
are preserved in districts.
For example, I think there are--
well, I suppose Representative Hunt would know the answer
to this quite well, but there are multiple districts
that represent Mattapan.
And I think there are some people in Mattapan who
would like greater representation in a fewer
number of districts.
And we see that type of cracking take place all over the map.
That likely had good intentions in 2011
and also, given the demographic changes, development, and more,
has led to a disproportionately white state house.
So I think, yes, we're looking at the total picture
of 160 districts in the house, 40 districts in the Senate.
But also I think in particular, we're
looking at the preservation of communities
of interests that are defined by people who
live in those neighborhoods.
Some of the challenges when you're doing redistricting
and you have a clustering of single ethnic populations--
so whether it's Asian, whether it's Latino,
or whether it's Black--
and you're trying to put them together to get that section 2
voting rights district, right?
So which is sort of like the gold standard of redistricting
if you have a clustering of one group.
But the problem is like, you know, I look at the 5th
and the 6th Suffolk districts, which are in Mattapan,
is we did what we need to do that under section 2, which
as of 10 years ago, you know, the 5th Suffolk was
51.8% Black and the 6th Suffolk was 68.5% black.
But when you're trying to get that number up so you
can get a single ethnic number to be over 50,
you're also pulling in a lot of people
who are not in that group.
So you'd have Latinos and Asians.
So when you look at the overall number of those two districts,
you know, their minority number when
you look at it from a coalition minority point of view,
they're in the 90s, right?
Which if you look at solely that number you'd
say that's packing, right?
It wouldn't be, because packing only applies
when you do it with one.
But if you're looking at it from that perspective
you'd say it's packing.
But we needed to do that to get those numbers up
for the Black districts, right?
And the same happened in the 12th Suffolk as well.
You know, we got that number up to 64.7% black,
but the overall minority number is almost 80% in that district,
right?
So those three jump off the page at you,
because you say, wow, there's a lot of minorities
in that district.
Why don't they spread them out?
Well, if we spread them out, then we
fail the section 2 test, right?
But the beauty of it is that, 10 years ago, we
had these discussions.
We explained why we did it.
We explained the reasoning that those numbers looked--
and there was generally I think--
I don't want to speak for people that were here on this call
from 10 years ago.
Generally they knew that.
I think that was the difference between previous redistrictings
and the one 10 years ago is that we had the conversation,
we told them what was going on, and they
knew why that number looked the way it did.
But so that is a challenge when you're doing that.
That is one of the real challenges that exists, so.
Great.
Let's see.
Any other comments or questions from members of the committee?
Senator, can I add a quick comment from the panel?
Please.
Yeah.
Just wanted to quickly add.
I know that a number of panelists
have mentioned the use of CVAP a couple of times,
and I know that in some spaces CVAP has been used as a way
to kind of take power away from communities of color.
So I just want to kind of quickly address that.
CVAP, the use of it, it's not inherently good or bad.
It's a tool in our toolkit that can
be used for good or for evil.
And I think as we're thinking about kind
of using CVAP, kind of any of the tools
that we have at our disposal to create new districts,
right, I think the importance isn't about thinking
about what tools we're necessarily using, right?
As long as we're sticking to the legal framework that
allows us to create these districts,
let's do that, but then as we're thinking about how we're
doing it, thinking about ultimately the end
result as the target and not about whether using CVAP or not
is good.
So I just wanted to make sure that I highlighted that.
Because as we start hearing the term more
it might bring up red flags for some people.
Thank you for that.
Are there other-- we have a great panel here.
I'm so grateful for the involvement
of all the expertise and community perspective
that this collection of panels has brought,
and we look forward to continuing
to stay very close and engaged to all of you, close to
and engaged with all of you.
Any last comments before we kind of adjourn this panel?
There are some other witnesses who
have signed up that we look forward
to taking their testimony momentarily,
but we welcome any further comments from this panel.
OK.
Thank you very much.
And so I will slowly move you back to attendee status,
but right now the next thing I'm going to do
is try to promote the next person I
believe who has signed up here.
Let me see if I can get this right.
We've got some real time responses
people who have signed up in the last few,
and I just want to get them in the right order.
Well, actually I'm not clear from what I see.
Is there anybody else?
I see Ms. [? Rachelle ?] [? Smith. ?] I'm going to allow
you to talk and ask you whether you were seeking to testify.
[? Rachelle ?] [? Smith, ?] you are on mute.
Bear with me a second.
I'm going to give her a second to unmute, and meanwhile
double check by reopening the spreadsheet of people
who have signed up on the form.
I'm not sure that any--
Jasmine Gomez, is [? Nicky ?] did
[? Nicky ?] wish to testify?
I don't see [? Nicky ?] in the among the attendees here,
so she may not or he may not have been signed up.
So here's what I'm going to do.
Just to make sure we don't miss anybody,
it's going to take me a minute to just remove
members of the panel, or work us back down to members
of the panel.
So why don't we plan to take a three minute break until 1:15,
and that'll give every member the chance
to take a break if they need it.
And we will reconvene in just about, let's say,
five minutes, 1:17.
We'll reconvene at 1:17.
And at that point, we will go into executive session
and take a vote on our charge.
Executive session remains in public.
We're not leaving the public sphere.
We're just not taking testimony any further.
But during this five minutes, I'll
be looking to make sure I haven't missed anybody
who's seeking to testify.
So I'm speaking to my chief of staff.
And fill out the form that's linked to
from the hearing scheduled, and they would appear.
But I'm not seeing that there's anybody else who's seeking
to do that at this time.
So if you are in hearing, let's start
to gather again to reconvene.
OK.
Looks like we're kind of back.
Before we close the sort of public conversation hearing
part of this session, I just want
to make sure that, are there any members who had remarks
that they wanted to make, had the opportunity to do so.
You know, we went through introductions.
If anybody had anything they wanted to say
but didn't feel that they were authorized
to do so as we went through those introductions,
feel authorized to do so now, if there's anything anybody wanted
to put on the table.
Not seeing hands raised.
Not hearing-- I think I'm trusting
that everybody's had the opportunity to speak
who wanted to speak.
Any other additional comments are good.
And so with that, I'd entertain a emotion
to close the public hearing.
[INAUDIBLE]
Is there a second for that motion?
Second.
Thank you.
So in this public hearing environment,
because it's hard to tell what's going on, the best practice--
in some people's minds the legally required practice.
I don't think that applies in this setting,
but it's definitely the best practice.
We'll just do a little roll call real quick.
And I will do the roll call.
I'll go down the list as everybody appears
in the participant list.
I think that's the safest way to make sure I get everybody.
So Senator Chairman Moran?
Yep.
Myself, yes.
Representative Straus?
Yes.
Representative Williams?
Yes.
Representative Golden?
Yes.
Representative Devers?
Yes.
Representative Peake?
Yes.
Let's see.
The order is changing as I go here.
Let's see.
I got Senator Hinds?
Yes.
This is going to be confusing.
Senator Gobi?
Yes.
Senator Fattman?
Yes.
Bear with me a second.
Representative Boldyga?
Yes.
Representative O'Day?
Yes.
Representative Diggs?
Yes.
Representative Ferguson?
Yes.
Representative Golden?
Wait, have I called you already?
I apologize.
Yeah.
Yes, again.
Sorry.
No worries.
Representative Tyler?
Yes.
Representative Wagner?
Yes.
Now have I missed anybody?
We're not going to do that again,
because as you unmute the order changes,
and so it's kind of dancing around there.
So that's not going to work.
Representative Frost is a yes.
Thank you, Representative Frost.
Senator Cyr is a yes.
Thank you, Senator Cyr.
Thank you for that.
I apologize to those I missed as those things moved around.
Well, I'm going to get a committee list up before.
So the next item on our agenda is,
the only vote we need to take as a committee is a vote
to approve our charge.
And has everybody seen the charge?
Let me-- just for a second, because we can--
all share screen and put that up there if we can.
How's that?
Everybody can see the charge to the committee?
Very straightforward charge.
Basically recites our commitment to the law
and our commitment to participation
and our mandate to engage with the public.
Any questions or thoughts on the charge?
Hearing none, and let's double check on that.
Not seeing any hands up.
I will entertain a motion to approve the charge.
[INAUDIBLE] motion.
Thank you.
And is that seconded?
Second.
Thank you, OK.
So now we'll do another quick roll call.
And before I call the roll again,
I'm just going to get a committee list in front of me
so that I don't dance out of order.
So from-- I'll do the Senate side first.
Senator Brownsberger, yes.
Senator Chang-Diaz?
Not present.
Senator Cyr.
Yes.
Senator Gomez?
Senator Gomez, OK, not present.
Senator Hinds?
Yes.
Senator Fattman.
Yes.
Thank you.
OK, now on the representative side, Representative Cutler?
And Senator Gobi is a yes.
Thank you, Senator Gobi.
I noticed that you actually don't appear on the-- oh,
there you are, because you're vice chair.
That's right.
I'm reading down the list.
Excuse me, Senator Gobi.
So Chairman Moran?
Yes.
Vice Chair Devers?
Yes.
Representative Cutler?
Representative Diggs?
Representative Farley-Bouvier.
Yes.
Thank you.
Representative Fiola?
Representative Golden?
Yes.
Representative Hunt?
Representative Moran?
Representative O'Day?
Yes.
Representative Mahoney?
Representative Peake?
Yes.
Representative Tyler?
Yes.
Representative Straus?
Yes.
Representative Vargas?
Representative Wagner?
Yes.
Representative Williams?
Yes.
Representative Frost?
Yes.
Representative Boldyga?
Yes.
Representative Dooley?
Representative Ferguson.
Yes.
Thank you, everybody, for taking the time to go through that.
That's a unanimous vote.
And so the charge the committee has adopted,
and there's no other business to come before us
in executive session here.
So I believe we can adjourn, and I'm
willing to do that without a roll call.
So I'll just take a motion on that.
So moved.
You create that motion.
Second.
No objection?
No objection.
All right.
We're done for the day.
Thank y'all very much.
Thank you, everybody.
Thank you.
Thank you thank you.
Give me [INAUDIBLE] you.