[MUSIC - BARBARA BONNEY, "AVE MARIA"]
I see Congressman McGovern's here.
[SOFT MUSIC]
Ave Maria, [NON-ENGLISH SINGING]
So I'm Will Brownsberger.
I'm a state senator.
I am the Senate co-chair of the Joint Redistricting Committee.
And this is a hearing on the redistricting
plans for the 2020--
2022, really, as a result of the 2020 census.
It's focused on the congressional district
of Congressman McGovern, focused on that district in the sense
of, first, about the lines of that district itself
but also any of the Senate or House lines
that are being drawn within that general area.
So I'll introduce my Senate colleagues.
And then I'll introduce the House chair.
He'll introduced his House colleagues.
And then we will recognize Congressman McGovern to begin.
You should be able to see live captioning.
And if you are intending to testify,
the way to do it and make sure that we
know that you want to testify is to be on the Zoom call.
And the way to get to that is go to the state legislature's
website and go to the Redistricting page.
malegislature.gov, go to the Redistricting page.
And you will see how to sign up for this hearing.
And then I will see you quickly on the list.
So with me from the Senate side are my vice chair,
Senator Anne Gobi--
greetings, Anne-- Senator Hinds.
And I know that Senator Fattman is trying to get in.
We've been having some trouble connecting him on.
But we expect--
Are we on?
--him to join us shortly.
[INAUDIBLE]
So stopping there, Chairman Moran,
do you want to introduce your members?
Thank you, Co-Chair Brownsberger.
And thank you to Congressman McGovern
for taking time out of his schedule to join us tonight.
I want to introduce my colleagues that are here,
starting with my vice chair.
The gentleman from Lawrence, Marcos Devers, is here.
I want to also introduce my colleague from Provincetown.
Representative Sarah Peake is here.
The gentleman from Lowell, Representative Tom Golden,
is here.
The gentleman from Worcester, Representative John Mahoney,
is here.
The gentle lady from Pittsfield, Representative Tricia
Farley-Bouvier, is here.
The gentle lady from Boston, Representative Chynah Tyler,
is here.
The leading ranking member of the Republican Party
on this committee, the gentleman from Auburn,
Representative Paul Frost, is here.
And the gentle lady from Holden, Representative Kim Ferguson,
is here.
I also want to do so at this point in time-- it's customary;
I like to do this--
Representative Jim O'Day to say a few words,
since he is the ranking member of this committee
from the 2nd congressional district
and a member of House leadership.
Jimmy, you want to introduce greetings
from the great 2nd congressional district?
Absolutely.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Great to be here with everyone this evening.
Great to see all of our colleagues on the call.
And I see my dear, dear friend, Congressman McGovern.
Hope he's doing well.
It's always a pleasure to see him.
And I can tell you that the Congressman is here a lot.
As a lot of the other folks on this call can tell you,
his district spreads far and wide.
And we're all extremely fortunate to have him
as our congressman.
But obviously wanted to wish everybody good greetings.
And thank you for joining us here this evening.
And the Congressman's district, as I mentioned,
does spread quite a ways away from the city of Worcester.
But we do like to think of ourselves as certainly his home
base.
And I want to also bring greetings
from our newest baseball team here in Worcester,
the Worcester WooSox.
They've had a tremendous first couple of weeks here.
I think they've only lost two games.
And I certainly want to bring greetings
from all of my district mates here in the city of Worcester.
Rep Mahoney, who you mentioned, Rep Keefe, who is not
on the Committee but does a tremendous amount of work
here in the city of Worcester, Rep Donahue and Rep LeBoeuf,
certainly Senator Chandler and Senator Mike Moore,
they all send their greetings and say thank you
to all, particularly all those who are here
to talk and to share ideas about the importance
of redistricting.
And so I can assure you that the entire committee is
very interested to hear what our colleagues
and what our constituents have to say.
And I'll turn it back over to you, Mr. Chairman.
Thanks very much for the opportunity
to say good evening here.
Thank you, thank you, Leader O'Day.
And at this point in time, I'd like
to turn it back to my co-chair, Senator Brownsberger,
to officiate the rest of the hearing.
Senator Brownsberger?
Thank you so much, Mike.
But you exposed me as remiss in not having invited my Senate
vice chair, Senator Gobi, who greatly overlaps
Senator McGovern's district from the top of the state
to the bottom of the state in Worcester County.
So, Senator Gobi, I don't know if you'd like
to say anything at this point.
Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And I'll be brief.
But as you mentioned, of the 28 communities that I represent,
the bulk of them are in Congressman McGovern's
district.
And for all the other folks on this call that may not
have Congressman McGovern as their immediate congressman,
I can tell you that every one of you
have a second congressman in Jim McGovern.
He is someone that has worked tirelessly
throughout the entire Commonwealth,
and I know this past year especially
when dealing a lot with food insecurity issues.
And he has been a champion for those issues,
helping out statewide.
And I know that Rep Ferguson and I especially do
a lot of work with the Congressman in Rutland
and Paxton and some of the communities
that we represent together.
And any time there is an issue, the Congressman is there.
In fact, I had a call earlier today
about an issue in Rutland.
And it was something that he had heard about even before Kim
and I did.
That's the type of congressman he
is, someone who's there to reach out,
to be there for the people, and to make sure
that we work together all the time.
So I am very pleased to welcome you, Congressman.
And again, I thank you for the great work that you do.
Excellent.
With that welcome, Congressman McGovern,
the floor is yours to speak to the Committee.
Well, thank you.
Thank you very much, Chairman Brownsberger and Chairman Moran
and members of the Joint Committee on Redistricting.
A special thanks to Representative O'Day
and Senator Gobi for the nice build up.
I can hardly wait to hear what I'm going
to say after those nice words.
But I appreciate it very much.
And it's a joy to serve with them,
and Representative Ferguson, as well, who's on the call.
We have some really good people here in Central and Western
Massachusetts.
So I'm grateful for their leadership.
And I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity
to be here tonight.
I want to thank you for your work on this committee.
And I extend my appreciation to all of you,
as your committee works towards deadlines
that were severely shortened because of the pandemic.
And, look, I understand the challenge before you.
And I know that you will all work diligently
over the next few months to ensure
that every resident of the Commonwealth
receives equal and fair representation.
Let me just say, and this is probably
a common opening of all the members of the delegation,
but let me say first and foremost,
I want to say that I love the 2nd congressional [CHUCKLES]
district, from the Blackstone Valley to the Pioneer Valley,
from Central Massachusetts to Western Massachusetts.
The 2nd congressional district has it all--
urban, rural, suburban.
I'm proud to represent my hometown of Worcester,
the second largest city in New England.
And I, too, want to urge you all to come to a WooSox game.
10 years ago, when the Commonwealth lost a seat
in Congress, I and many others strongly
advocated that Western Massachusetts
continue to be represented by two members of Congress.
It's a challenging part of the state in many respects.
There's urban, rural, and suburban.
But I think that it benefits by having two representatives,
and in this case Congressman Neal and myself.
And as much as I love the 2nd congressional district,
I understand that, as a result of the census,
that population growth throughout the state
has varied.
And so I know that changes are going to have to be made.
And Chairman Moran and Chairman Brownsberger
and members of the Committee, I appreciate the opportunity
to share my thoughts on this matter.
Look, when I first got elected to Congress in 1996,
I had the Ivy League district, they called it.
It went from Princeton to Dartmouth.
Worcester actually was in a district with Fall River.
And it had beautiful beaches in Westport.
It was challenging.
But again, it was a wonderful experience for me.
There was another redistricting.
And I assumed a big chunk of MetroWest.
Again, it was a challenging but an interesting district.
And now I have a district that goes from Worcester out
to the Pioneer Valley.
And one of the reasons why I would
like you to consider making sure that the Central Mass
District goes into Western Mass and continues to go to Western
Mass is because I'm the only member of the delegation that
actually has a seat on the Agriculture Committee.
And we have a very strong and vibrant agricultural sector
in this state that sometimes gets overlooked and taken
for granted.
And I think I can continue to be a voice for their interests.
Farms in New England are unique.
And they don't always get represented
in the full Agriculture Committee in the Congress.
And I think I've been a good representative in that regard.
I want to continue to do that.
I also chair their House Rules Committee,
which oversees everything.
And so I can advocate for my areas
as well through that chairmanship.
Just again, in addition to keeping
a part of the 2nd district to go to Western Massachusetts,
I would again urge that we keep Worcester whole
and that we understand that some of the communities
around Worcester kind of go together with Worcester.
We talk about regional activities
and regional approaches to economic development here.
It involves a lot of those other towns.
So again, as you decide how you want to draw the map,
I would just leave you with those two thoughts.
But again, you have a big job ahead of you
and a lot of hearings that you have to deal with.
But I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have.
Any members of the Committee have
questions for the Congressman?
Congressman, thank you so much for taking the time
to appear with us for this.
We're grateful for your input.
And we look forward to working with you through the process.
Well, thank you.
And again, thank you all for serving this committee.
And I'm looking at my screen here,
which is like Hollywood Squares.
A lot of you, even though we don't
share some of the same cities and towns,
I'm well aware of your leadership in the legislature.
And I appreciate your service.
So with that, I thank you.
And I wish you have a good night.
Thank you again.
Thank you, Congressman.
So let's see.
I'm going to call on the mayor of Northampton, David
Narkewicz.
So what we'll be doing as, people, I recognize you,
you will be promoted to be a member of the panel
so that everybody can see and hear you.
So we just need a moment for that to happen.
OK, am I here?
You can hear me?
We are.
You're there.
OK, I had to begin with that standard Zoom line
that we all hear.
Sorry for that.
Good afternoon.
I'm Mayor David Narkewicz from the city of Northampton.
Chairperson Brownsberger, Chairperson Moran,
other members of the committee, I appreciate the opportunity
to offer my thoughts on this important topic.
It's also great to be here with Northampton's congressman
in the 2nd district, Representative Jim McGovern,
who has been a great advocate for our city
and for Western Massachusetts since he became our congressman
after the last census.
And it was 10 years ago that the legislature
led a very open and transparent process around redistricting.
And I'm glad to see that that spirit will continue
into this new census with this and other hearings
that you'll be holding around our Commonwealth.
For those of you who aren't familiar with Northampton,
we're in the county seat in Hampshire County.
We're home to the regional court system, the regional hospital.
We have a major college and are in the center
of a five-college area.
And we're a medium-sized city in the scale of things.
But we are very much in the heart of economic activity,
cultural activity in the Pioneer Valley.
So as Congressman McGovern alluded to, obviously
the initial 2020 census findings have shown what many of us
here in Western Mass have been concerned about.
And that is shrinking population.
I am glad, though, to hear that Massachusetts will not
lose a seat in Congress.
But I am here to express the opinion how important it
is to have two members of Congress
representing and advocating for us here in Western
Massachusetts, especially here in the Pioneer Valley,
and whether that's advocating for major regional economic
development projects, making sure
that policy and legislation that benefits our region
can advance through the leadership of the chair
of the Rules Committee and the chair of the Ways and Means
Committee here in Western Massachusetts,
making sure Western Massachusetts receives
its fair share in federal aid, or simply addressing the needs
and challenges faced every day by residents
through constituent casework.
I've seen firsthand the benefit of having
two people representing our region
of the state in the Congress.
I say this as a mayor who worked closely
with both of our Western Massachusetts members
of Congress during my 10 years in office
on a variety of issues and projects of importance
to Northampton and the region.
I also say it as a former staffer to retired Congressman
John Olver when he represented the 1st district, the old 1st
district pre-2010.
As John's district economic development coordinator,
I can say firsthand how challenging
it was to represent just our Western Mass communities
while working closely with Congressman Neal and his staff
to ensure the entire region was well served in Washington.
I could not imagine the challenges
of one member trying to represent
all of these communities in the 413.
The Pioneer Valley, where Northampton is located,
stretches across the Connecticut River Valley,
spanning three counties--
Franklin, where I grew up, and Hampshire, where Northampton is
located, and Hampden counties.
These counties are home to the third largest
city in the Commonwealth--
Springfield-- as well as medium-sized cities
like mine to small towns to some of our state's most
rural farming communities.
The interest of each of these municipalities are unique.
But we all have a shared stake in the future
of our region, which is why strong regional representation
in Congress is so important.
So as you work over these next few months
to translate the 2020 census into updated
congressional and state legislative district
boundaries, I hope you will make continuity of representation
and geographic balance and equity top priorities,
particularly for Western Massachusetts.
Thank you again for holding this hearing
and for this opportunity to testify.
Thank you very much for your testimony.
It's very helpful to frame it in those terms.
Do members of the committee have questions for the mayor?
Thank you very much, Mayor.
Appreciate your testimony.
Thank you.
And thank you for accommodating me early in the process today.
Thank you.
No problem.
So next on the list, I've got Amy Frankis.
Is Amy online?
I'm not seeing Amy.
So I'm going to go to the next person.
We'll come back to you, Amy, if you are here.
I see also signed up is a Leah [INAUDIBLE]..
And I don't see Leah present among the participants either.
So we will bypass with the possibility of coming back.
Deonna Johnson, not present.
Matt Baron is present.
So if we could promote Matt Baron to testify at this time,
please.
Hello.
You're on.
Thank you so much for being here.
Thank you.
I'm a resident of Chesterfield in the 1st Congressional
District.
And along with some of my neighbors,
we're very unhappy with our current Congressman
and would like to be moved into the 2nd district.
I used to be chair of our Democratic town
committee for 18 years.
And in January of 2012, Congressman Neal
called me and said, quote, "You're
going to get the same great rural representation with me
as you did with the Congressman Olver," unquote.
And I said, OK, we'll see.
And it hasn't been a good experience.
[CHUCKLES]
We call him the "Inaccessible Congressman" because he doesn't
hold town hall meetings.
He doesn't hold district office hours.
He's rarely here.
We're very rural.
And I'd like to see 10 of the rural communities
in Western Franklin and Hampshire County--
Ashfield, Bernardston, Buckland, Chesterfield, Colrain, Conway,
Goshen, Lyden, Shelburne, and Williamsburg;
collective population of about 16,284--
become the western edge of the 2nd congressional district
and towns that Congressman Neal used to represent
in Southern Worcester County--
Spencer, Webster, North Brookfield;
those three have a population of over 33,000--
be moved into the 1st district.
And those are towns that Congressman Neal represented
for many years from 1992 until 2012
in his old 2nd congressional district.
In the last two Democratic primaries,
these communities that are rural and in Western Franklin
and Hampshire have voted for Mr. Neal's challenger-- all 10
in last year's primary and seven of the 10 in 2018.
So you can look at the electoral evidence
that we're not happy with him.
And he's probably not happy with us.
Whereas as Congressman McGovern just said,
he's on the Agriculture Committee.
That takes in rural development with the US Department
of Agriculture.
I talk to Jim McGovern on a local radio show frequently.
He does a question period once a week.
And it's refreshing.
I've asked him three questions this spring.
I haven't been able to get any face time with Congressman Neal
since he's represented me.
[CHUCKLES]
So we don't have the final numbers yet.
I know that the 1st congressional district
has to gain people to make up for the population loss.
And I'll submit this map in this testimony for the record
so you can see it.
This would be a minor tweaking.
But I think all parties would benefit by this change.
Thank you.
Happy to answer any questions.
Thank you very much for your testimony.
Do members of the committee have any questions?
Members of the committee have been listening carefully.
But they have no questions.
Thank you.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
Sorry, go ahead.
Did I miss somebody?
Please.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
Oops, someone else, too, I guess.
This is Rep Frost.
I put up the little hand there on the Zoom.
Yeah, no, I think my question is--
and I appreciate the testimony on what communities to possibly
swap out and swap in.
But I think Congressman McGovern did also mention,
I know he wants to keep as much of his Western Mass district
as possible and gave some very good reasons on why
he would want that, especially with the agriculture
side of things.
But for the first time 10 years ago,
we got far more closer to a regional Central Mass district
than we ever had in a very, very long time.
And I would think that there are going
to be communities out this way.
I don't think it's just as easy to say, swap out
Spencer and North Brookfield and put them back with Springfield,
when the Congressman talked about,
there are communities around Worcester
that have more in common with Worcester than they might
Springfield or another place.
And I would just caution that I think there are probably
communities now that, putting congressional personalities
aside because congressmen can change,
people can change over the next 10 years,
but when you look at making a regional sense of a district,
I mean, I could be one that could argue that Charlton
and Dudley and Southbridge really have more in common
with Worcester than they do Springfield and really should
be part of a Worcester-based district opposed
to a Springfield-based district.
So I guess my concern or my question for the speaker
is that, are you taking into account
that other communities may not want to do that?
I mean, I understand you want to jump in
on the 2nd congressional district.
And I understand your rationale.
But there may be communities that you
want to swap out that may not want
to be swapped out and like staying
in the 2nd congressional district.
Sure.
I mean, you all have the power to draw
the maps later this year.
[CHUCKLES]
OK, well, thank you.
Senator Hinds has a question.
I was just trying to picture--
I didn't look at the map.
I was trying to picture if the towns--
do they follow county lines, as well?
You can maybe just-- oh, there you go.
[LAUGHS] So it does.
Mhm.
Yeah, OK.
I think it does.
Well, anyway, we'll look.
Yeah, it seems it does.
No towns are split.
That's one thing in redistricting,
is no matter where you are--
I believe it's sort of one of the cardinal rules-- you,
at all costs, try not to split communities
by giving some precincts or wards to one
district and another to another congressional district.
I think we have very few of that,
unless it's a major city like Boston.
But at the municipal level, I think Palmer in Western Mass
is one of the few communities that is actually
split between districts.
So this doesn't do that.
OK, thank you.
Now, I see Ralph Toran.
I'm going to recognize you.
But I just want make sure who you are.
I'm wondering whether you're maybe
a legislator with the wrong name coming up or something?
I'm not a legislator.
I'm a retired superintendent of schools.
OK, all right.
And I don't know if anybody among you
would remember the name of Walter Boverini.
Sure.
Let me stop you, sir, just for a moment.
So you're here to testify?
Did you wish to testify at some point?
I just wished to make a few suggestions
relative to the task that you have at hand,
how difficult it is, and how the Great and General
Court may deal with it.
All right, well, somehow you've come in as a panelist.
And that's fine.
So we'll recognize you at this time
to give testimony to the committee about your thoughts
on the redistricting process.
We welcome your suggestions.
Thank you.
I think the Great and General Court
itself needs to look at redistricting
for better governance.
And in the process, I've taken and worked with a map
and, myself, come up with seven districts for the Great
and General Court that would be of a size
and consider citizens from infants to early childhood
on through adult education and higher education
and would consider special-ed programs, mentally challenged,
blind, deaf, addicted, and otherwise challenged citizens.
And problems that don't exist in many communities
would exist within the districts that I've established.
All of the districts would share these problems.
And they would share an interest in solving them.
And so I won't spend a great deal of time.
But one district would involve Berkshire County,
a third of Franklin, a third of Hampshire,
and a third of Hampden.
Two thirds of the remaining districts--
Franklin, Hampshire, and Hampden--
would be linked with Worcester to make a second district.
So the first district would be a Berkshire district,
which involve Berkshire and a third of those three.
A second district would be Worcester and the remaining
third of the three that I mentioned.
Middlesex, which would run from Pepperell to Lexington,
and then an Essex district, a Norfolk district,
and a Plymouth, Bristol, Barnstable,
and Islands district, they would be much larger districts.
And the Great and General Court would
consider how to allocate the existing representative
positions and senatorial positions to those districts.
But they would be larger.
And they would all share and provide
for the common good, which oftentimes gets overlooked.
Our current districts, to some degree, reinforce racism.
They reinforce other structural deficits
that haven't taken into account the changes that
exist across the Commonwealth.
So I won't take any more of your time
because I know what you have at hand
in trying to deal with the federal issues.
But the Court itself, when you look
at the Great and General court and the tasks
that it's faced with and all of the work
that current representatives and senators work on,
they don't work as much in the common good
as they would if they were structured differently.
OK, thank you very much for that suggestion.
Do you want to make sure that you submit that
to the committee in writing, as well, so we can take a look
at the districts that you're suggesting?
I have.
Yeah, if I could link up with an aide
of some sort from somebody's committee,
I would be glad to show them several maps that
were developed back around the time of 1973
or '74 for district organization.
OK, are you able to see the chat if we put something in the chat
for you?
I could, yes.
All right, well, I'm going to put in--
actually maybe the easier thing is
to-- what's our address for the Redistricting Committee?
That would probably be better, if we can.
I just put the Contact form in the chat.
OK, good.
Andrew put the Contact form in the chat.
So does everybody see that?
I see that right now.
OK.
All right, so that's a good place, too,
if you want to submit the outlines of those districts
or describe them or to make a contact with the committee
to go through that form.
I will.
I'll be glad to go over it.
OK.
All right, we appreciate your testimony.
Now, the next person signed up is Linda Dunlavy.
Is Linda Dunlavy here?
I don't see Linda Dunlavy in--
oh, yes.
I see Linda.
So let's promote Linda so you can speak.
Are you up there, Linda?
There you go.
You're in the right place.
You just need to unmute, and we can hear you.
Linda is still on mute.
There you go.
Hi.
Thank you.
I'm Linda Dunlavy.
I'm the executive director of the Franklin Regional
Council of Governments.
And the COG serves the 26 towns of Franklin County, which
is the most rural county in Massachusetts,
with 70,000 residents across 725 square miles.
I'm also the chair of the Rural Policy Advisory Commission.
And the RPAC was created by the legislature in 2015
with the mission of enhancing the economic vitality
of rural municipalities.
The legislation that created the RPAC
defined "rural" as communities with a population density
of less than 500 people per square mile.
And in 2010, using 2010 census figures,
that's 170 municipalities, 59% of the land
area of Massachusetts, but only 13% of the population.
In 2019, we issued the Massachusetts Rural Policy Plan
that conducted an analysis of rural assets and challenges
and demonstrated how rural areas need different policy
investment and regulatory actions to support
their unique issues.
And this is critical as we think about redistricting.
We strongly advocate for as little change
to the representation of rural Western Massachusetts as
possible.
We currently have a strong and dedicated delegation
who understand the complexities and unique challenges
that rural municipalities face.
And we very much hope to maintain their strength
of understanding and advocacy.
And if I could talk both about state and federal districts
very briefly, currently Franklin County
is split in its representation and is
divided into districts that create effective communities
of interest.
Our western hill towns have very similar demographics
and share a labor force and employment opportunities
with communities in Berkshire County
that are represented by Senator Hinds--
hi, Senator Hinds-- and Representative Mark.
Our Eastern Franklin County towns
are part of the North Quabbin region
that's shared with Worcester County
and represented by Representative Whipps.
And these communities have a long history
of working together and sharing schools,
social services, and economies.
And finally, our communities in the center and south
of Franklin County are served by Senator Comerford
and Representative Blais, who also serve
portions of Hampshire County.
This area of Franklin County and Hampshire County
also create a synergistic community of interest.
The University of Massachusetts is the largest employer
of Franklin County.
Several of our social service organizations
serve both Franklin and Hampshire counties.
And the demographics, economies, and social priorities
of the two counties are very similar.
And while we could not imagine a world
without the support of Congressman John
Olver 10 years ago, we have welcomed Congressman Neal
and Congressman McGovern and have
been particularly heartened by the commitment of Jim McGovern
to our region.
I thank you for the opportunity to testify.
I know that asking for things to stay the same
is not entirely possible.
And I know the task before you is difficult.
But I thank you for your consideration
of the unique needs of our rural region
and how fortunate we feel to have
the strong group of dedicated, knowledgeable legislators
currently serving us.
Thanks so much.
Thank you very much for your thoughtful testimony.
Are there questions or comments from the members
of the committee?
I want to say thanks.
Thanks for all the work that you do for rural communities.
And now adding to the political strategization,
as well, is much appreciated.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for being with us.
I want to take the opportunity to recognize Representative
Diggs, who has joined us now.
Thank you, Representative Diggs.
And I understand the registrar of deeds, Mary Olberding,
is present with us.
And so I recognize her if she's ready to testify at this time.
There we go.
You can see me?
Yes, ma'am.
Thank you, Senator Brownsberger.
I testified 10 years ago at the last redistricting committee
meeting.
And I recognize Chairman Moran as well as Vice Chair Anne Gobi
and several other friends who are
on the committee, Senator Hinds, Representative Farley-Bouvier.
I appreciate all of your time here today.
I'm Mary Olberding.
I am registrar of deeds for Hampshire County.
We are located in the Western part of the state.
There are approximately 150,000 people in 20 cities and towns.
I was elected in 2012.
And even prior to my election, I served on the finance committee
in the town of Belchertown, where I still live today.
And so my testimony will be in both my professional
and personal capacity.
Belchertown is situated in Congressman McGovern's
district.
And as you heard from several other people,
we all changed 10 years ago, with the difficult process
of losing a congressional representative.
And though we all were sad to have Congressman Olver leave,
we're very happy with Congressman McGovern.
I submitted my testimony already.
So I won't read it.
I'll just give you some highlights, if I may.
I've been interested in redistricting
pretty much since I was a child.
[CHUCKLES]
I've been involved with politics and grew up in Ohio
and started campaigning for a congressman
before I could walk.
And then he moved away and we no longer campaigned for him.
And I learned the hard lessons of redistricting
at an early age and been following the process ever
since.
So I take it very seriously, where
the lines are, even if imaginary,
through our neighborhoods and cities.
And I know the importance of allocating available resources
and how it changes the direction and the history of our region.
That is why I know the work that you do is very important.
And I'm very appreciative of all the time and effort
I know that you will have to put into redrawing the districts.
And as Linda Dunlavy said, none of us wants to change.
And we're all quite happy, the way things are.
But if my testimony can offer you
any suggestions or recommendations on the best way
to keep areas congruous and compatible, I happily do that.
I'm also grateful for your work, given
the challenges of the census in this last year
and the pandemic times we continue to live in.
But one silver lining is I'm very
grateful to be testifying from my home
and not driving all the way into Boston.
So I appreciate that, as well.
I know that 10 years ago, the committee's work
was deemed successful because of the objectives of achieving
minority majority districts, also
by reducing the congressional delegation and then also
because the maps were not challenged in the courts.
So I wish you all luck and success
in meeting those objectives this time.
The area of congressional district 1 and 2
both lie in Hampshire County.
There are eight state representatives.
There are five state senators.
Only three of those representatives
live in Hampshire County.
Only one of the five senators lives in Hampshire County.
None of the congressional representatives
live in Hampshire County.
Even though this hearing is about congressional district 2,
some of my comments, my testimony,
do apply to congressional district 1, as well.
It's about half and half distribution of the towns
of Hampshire County.
The critical request that I have are,
as you've heard from the mayor and others
testifying, the huge importance of having the two
congressional districts here in Western Massachusetts,
especially because those two members of Congress
have important positions on Ways and Means and Rules.
We are not as well populated, as you
know, as the Eastern part of the state.
And having two in a greater territory and number of towns
is essential to getting the resources
that we need for the towns.
It's already been mentioned, the rural nature of our district.
And with Congressman McGovern being on the Agricultural
Committee, that is very important.
We have nine hill towns that Senator Hinds
represents in the western part of the county.
And those, along with Hatfield and Hadley,
are very rural still and largely made up
of family farms and land that has been
passed through generations.
So I would strongly advocate keeping Congressman McGovern
not only for half of Hampshire County
but for my own hometown of Belchertown.
He is excellent, fair, just, dedicated
in his public service to the district,
as well as the Commonwealth.
And I might add, on January 6, he
was so dedicated to his position that he
was the last to leave the House of Representatives
when it was being attacked.
10 years ago, I introduced Congressman McGovern
to the towns of Hampshire County that were in his district,
including my own of Belchertown, as well as giving him tours
of some of the local farms.
And needless to say, he took to the job
very easily and quickly.
And they were all very grateful to have his representation.
That being said, for Belchertown, Eric Lesser
is our state senator.
10 years ago was the first time all of Belchertown
was included as one state Senate district.
We are not quite 16,000 people.
So it seemed sufficient to have one state senator.
But at the time, I would respectfully
request that you reconsider the state representative lines.
Matt Baron suggested earlier that there
weren't that many towns.
There are three towns in Hampshire County--
Granby, Belchertown, and Ware--
that have multiple representatives.
And Belchertown is the largest, with just under 16,000.
So it's possible that none of them need more than one.
But I know that the maps are not perfect.
So I'm testifying in my own interest for Belchertown,
and that is that the 2nd Franklin
district is represented by Representative Whipps.
And her district only meets Belchertown down in Precinct A
through the Quabbin.
There's no parts of her district that physically meet.
And our districts are very different.
And the needs of precinct A and Belchertown
are not the same as those of the rest
of the district in Franklin and Worcester County.
We have four precincts in Belchertown-- two
are northern, closer to the Amherst-Pelham line,
and two are southern, closer to the Ludlow line.
Jake Oliveira is the newly elected representative
for the remaining three precincts.
Traditionally Belchertown, when it has been divided,
has been divided by those northern and southern precincts
because it's very distinct here in town.
The northern, closer to Amherst, is very much
where people work and recreate.
And the same is true of the southern precincts.
People tend to work in Hampden County.
Back to my Hampshire County hat.
The only other thing I would suggest is that,
in the Senate districts, Senator Hind's district of Berkshire,
Hampshire, Franklin, Hampden-- did I leave any of them out--
is rather large.
And that district might--
I suspect would might need to move towards the East.
And if that were the case, the towns
of Southampton and/or Easthampton
are contiguous with his current district
and would benefit from his representation.
Senator Velis' district, which is the 2nd Hampden-Hampshire
district-- excuse me--
they only have two towns in Hampshire County--
Southampton and Easthampton.
And both of those towns are much more compatible geographically,
politically, culturally to Berkshire and Hampshire County.
Hampden County, where the majority
of the 2nd Hampden-Hampshire district is based in Westfield.
And it's just an entirely different geography.
In my testimony I did make suggestions with population
counts if you need to move.
They're only suggestions.
Other than these four requests that I've made respectfully,
the suggestions are just to try and help you out.
And I'm happy to answer any questions.
That's very helpful and specific testimony.
We do appreciate it.
Do members of the committee have any questions?
Mr. Chair, if--
Please.
I guess I also want to make sure you bring
your voice into the hearing on the 1st CD,
as well, since you're really overlapping a lot.
So whether you do it physically or otherwise,
I think that's relevant because you bring up a lot of points
that touch on CD1.
So maybe we'll just make that note during that hearing,
as well.
I want to make sure we've gotten your written
testimony, that you submitted that through the Redistricting
email.
I did.
And if there's any trouble or you need more,
Adam and Anne certainly know how to get a hold of me.
And I can submit it again.
If you want me to offer anything more specific about CD1,
I'm happy to attend that hearing, as well.
Thank you.
Thank you, thank you.
Appreciate your testimony.
Thank you very much.
I see that Representative Mary Keefe is waiting to testify.
Mary, would you like to be-- can we promote Mary Keefe?
Mary, you've been promoted.
You just need to unmute yourself.
You're still on mute, Mary.
Mary, I'm going to assume that Mary may be away from her desk.
We've promoted her.
But she may not really be online.
So we'll move past Mary.
We'll come back to you, Mary.
If you're having trouble, we will come back to you.
I will text her and let her know when she's ready to go.
You can move to somebody else for the time being, OK?
All right, thank you.
So I see Isabel--
sorry.
Don't have the whole name in front of me.
Isabel González-Webster is next in line.
And Isabel is part of a group.
And I will call the members one at a time in the order
that they've identified themselves
as part of that group.
So Isabel González-Webster is who we're looking for now.
Yes, hi.
Good evening.
Thank you.
So I want to apologize ahead of time.
I'm driving back from the airport.
And so I don't have the speech in front of me.
But I'm so glad to be here in front of you all to testify.
And thank you, Chairman Brownsberger,
for allowing us all to give our input, Representative
O'Day from Worcester, Representative Mary
Keefe, and so many others, and Congressman McGovern obviously.
So I testified earlier in one of the first hearings.
And I'm going to probably share a lot of what
I did the first time around.
My name is Isabel González-Webster.
I'm the director of Worcester Interfaith.
And we're part of the Drawing Democracy Fund,
Democracy HUBS, and a lot of other state and local
initiatives to make sure that we have representative democracy,
not just in Worcester--
statewide and obviously nationally through our friends
at Demos.
And for us, what we've seen is challenges not just in terms
of having folks of color want to run for elected office
but also challenges within systems.
And so Worcester Interfaith and the NAACP
recently filed a lawsuit against the city of Worcester's school
committee electoral system because it was an all,
at-large system and, for the majority of its history,
had all white school committee members,
even though we have 70% kids of color in the public school
system.
And that has brought challenges around graduation rates,
absenteeism, disparate disciplinary policies
for kids of color.
I won't say more.
I'll just leave it there.
I'm bringing it to the very micro level
because we know folks start at the micro level and then
move on to state representative, Congress, et cetera, et cetera.
On our state delegation, we have seven delegation seats.
And only three of those seven delegation seats
solely represent Worcester.
And we know that the city of Worcester in Central Mass
is the most diverse.
And so it's very problematic when you have--
and we have great partnerships with all our seven
representatives.
But it's really hard when you only
have three that solely represent Worcester.
And the rest of the seven delegation members
have to split their attention from advocating for Worcester
and then advocating for the surrounding towns that
are mostly white, very conservative, and much more
wealthy than the city of Worcester.
And so for us, it's really important
to make sure that we're really looking at redistricting,
making sure that we're keeping communities together when we're
redrawing lines, whether it's statewide, federally,
or locally, that we can be communities of interest
together, that we're making sure that cities like Worcester
don't get left out because we're surrounded
by all these conservative, all-white, suburban towns that
have a lot more interest.
And so our votes of color get diluted by the white majority
vote around us.
And so we want to ensure that the commitment to making sure
that we draw more majority-minority seats
is really important to us, that you ensure access
to these meetings.
And thank you so much.
Someone mentioned earlier about not having
to drive into this meeting.
I would also encourage having interpretation and sign
language for future meetings so that other people can
be part of this conversation that
speak other languages other than English.
I would also encourage you to work with community partners
when you're looking at drawing lines,
looking at drawing communities of interest.
I know in Drawing Democracy, the partners
that are part of Drawing Democracy
are looking at drawing a unity map.
And we really want to make sure that when
we're looking at representative democracy
and having more people of color being representative
in the state legislature and in Congress,
it's not because we just want more people of color
to have power.
But having true representative democracy
is not just good for people of color.
But it's good for democracy in general.
So I'll yield my time.
Thank you so much for allowing me to speak.
Appreciate your testimony.
And I'm going to recognize Chairman
Moran for his statement.
Thank you, Senator.
And thank you, Isabella, for your testimony.
I just want to just point out a few things if I could.
This is the second time at a redistricting hearing--
issues around Worcester and the municipal maps
that they drew during redistricting
have surfaced at our hearings.
And I just want to remind people--
Isabella, as well; I'm sure she probably
knows, but other people who are watching--
that municipal-level redistricting maps have nothing
to do with our process.
Our process has to do with the state representative maps
and state Senate maps, the governor's council maps,
and the congressional maps.
And if I could draw you back to 10 years ago
when I was fortunate enough to chair this committee then,
we drew 20 minority-majority districts,
which doubled the amount we had before.
And in the city of Worcester, which is about 185,000 people,
the only district that we could draw
that was a majority-minority district
was the one represented by Mary Keefe
currently, then represented by Vinny Pedone.
It was the utmost important for us,
as it is this time around, to make sure
that where we have the opportunity
to draw districts that have majority-minority in them,
we do.
That commitment hasn't changed.
But I think it's important to recognize the fact that we
did that 10 years ago.
And we did it all over the map.
And because of what we did, we have seen many people of color
be elected to the House and to the Senate.
So while I appreciate what's going on
at the municipal level, whether it be at the municipal level,
whether it be in Lowell or in Worcester,
that is a municipal-level problem, municipal-level issue.
At the state level, we had no problem 10 years ago.
And it's our intent to take that same attitude and openness
and transparency in this process to make sure that we
do the same this time around.
So I just wanted to say a few words regarding what Isabel
was saying and give her assurance
that we are going to do exactly the same as we
did 10 years ago.
And hopefully we get the same results.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Were there any other comments or questions
from members of the committee?
I do want to also speak to the point of languages.
We are working on plans to conduct
some of our later hearings in dedicated languages
so that people speaking different languages
will have the opportunity to address the committee,
for sure.
OK, thank you very much.
I know that there is sort of a sequence
here that people had mapped out for testifying together.
And they're close in line in the sign-up list.
So I'm just going to recognize them in the order
that they appear in the panel.
Jordan Berg Powers, please.
Welcome, Jordan.
You ready for me?
Yes, sir.
Thank you.
[LAUGHS] So dear Chairperson Moran
and Chairperson Brownsberger, my name is Jordan Berg Powers.
I use he/him.
I'm a Worcester resident.
In my day job, I'm executive director of Mass Alliance.
Mass Alliance is a part of the Drawing Democracy Coalition.
But today I come to you as a resident of CD2
and not as an executive director of Mass Alliance.
OK.
As you both know, and indeed as the members of the committee
know, I don't normally have positive words
for the state House.
[LAUGHS] In fact, this might be one of the few times
you will hear me say, publicly, job well done
to anyone at the state House.
But 10 years ago--
I cannot believe it's been that long--
Chairperson Moran, you did a great job creating ultimately
two majority-minority districts, districts of opportunity
and opportunities for people of color
to have influence across all seven state-level districts
in the city of Worcester.
That is not an easy balance.
And chairperson Moran, I think you got that balance right.
Chairperson, you ultimately created--
it was originally one majority-minority district--
through time and people moving in
and changes in demographics, which of course necessitate
changing lines today, two now majority-minority districts
if the lines were to stay the same.
It looks like-- we don't obviously
have the final data from the census.
But from initial reports, it looks
like we would have ultimately two majority-minority districts
in the city of Worcester and provide opportunity for people
of color to have an important say across all
the representation.
To me, that was the right balance.
Additionally, rather than packing us
into one state Senate district, people of color
rightly have influence and, I would
argue, significant influence of the two state Senate districts,
with Worcester as their heart.
That was also, I believe, the right balance.
I've heard talk that there is an interest of packing people
of color into one state Senate district and/or one state
representative district to better ensure a person of color
will be elected from Worcester.
Not only would that be illegal and possibly trigger
needless lawsuit, it is also morally wrong.
Yes, we have failed as a community
to capitalize on the two state representative
majority-minority districts if your goal is simply
to elect people of color.
But when given the choice, voters
of color in both instances voted for white candidates.
We cannot and should not pack people of color into a district
because we do not like the choices of voters of color
to vote for white candidates.
I live in one of the poorest parts
of the state, the fourth poorest according
to one study I found online.
I like that my ward, ward 10, has
such an outsized role to play in the state's delegation
we send to Boston.
That should continue, not shrink.
Worcester has many problems-- a racist system
for electing our school committee, which you mentioned,
and an at-large weak mayor system and government.
But our forms of government, our racist school committee system
is not the concern of this committee,
nor can it be rectified through a state-level redistricting
process.
I think you should lean on your instincts
and create similar districts to the ones you
created 10 years ago.
Finally, I think our congressional district
shifting away from New Bedford and Norfolk County, Bristol
County, and toward Berkshire County and Northampton--
and toward Berkshire County and Franklin County
and Northampton was the right decision.
I know that there are some pressure from other state
senators who want to run for Congress to shift
our congressional seat back East.
But the concerns of the coast are not as similar
as the concerns of Central Worcester County
and into the rural parts of the state.
We have more in common with Northampton
than eastern communities like Dover and Weymouth.
We have more in common with Leominster than we do Rehoboth.
And if you drive out West, like I have many times,
you know that Princeton and Petersham
are similar communities with similar concerns.
The redistricting from 10 years ago
got our congressional district right.
And since we are without a need to lose a seat,
I encourage the committee to keep it roughly the same.
Thank you for your time.
Are there questions or comments from members of the committee?
So I have a question, actually, if I may.
I'm interested in your testimony.
And I thought it sounded a little different
from what I just heard the last witness say.
I thought I heard the last witness say
that because Worcester was diluted by--
I'm talking about the Senate districts now--
was diluted by grouping it with the surrounding
suburban communities, the urban voices forget about color--
the urban, lower income, rental population
that Worcester was diluted and didn't get the full attention.
That's what I thought I heard her saying.
And so that would be an argument for having a district that
contained more of the--
Worcester is big enough that it has to be split no matter what.
It's over the size of a Senate district.
But she seemed to be making an argument for a district that
was dominated by Worcester as opposed
to split between Worcester and suburban communities.
You can have two districts that are split between Worcester
and urban communities.
Or you can split Worcester in half.
Or you can have a district that's, whatever, 80% or 90%
of Worcester, or entirely in Worcester for that matter,
but would be not quite all the community.
I heard you saying that you felt that would
diminish the representation of Worcester.
Help me out.
Yeah, I think that people of conscience
can come to different conclusions
with the same information and data.
And I would say that my personal preference on this
is for Worcester to have an outsized role in two
districts as opposed to having one district where
we have an outsized role and another where we're just
sort of left-overs in it.
That would be my personal preference.
I think that no matter what, because the urban core
of Worcester has increased, it's going
to be impossible to keep the lines the exact same place.
And so I think, where possible, where you can keep us together,
I think that's beneficial.
But if you're talking about the whole city of Worcester,
I think it helps that Worcester is the heart of both
of those communities and then, therefore,
has an outsized role, as opposed to if we had one Senator where
we had an outsized role.
I think you can accomplish both things.
I think, because of the population growth,
it's possible to do both things.
I think what we're talking about is degrees
that we're leaning on one or the other.
And we might disagree a little bit
on how far we lean one way or another.
OK, that's helpful.
I'd like to pursue that with you as the process goes forward.
Thank you.
Other questions, comments from members of the committee?
All right, thank you very much.
I know there's a couple of other members of this, quote,
unquote, "panel."
But let's jump to Representative Mary Keefe,
also from Worcester-- an appropriate part
of this conversation.
Thank you, Mary, for being with us.
Thank you.
Thank you for all the members of the committee
and for all your hard work in thinking about this.
I grew up outside of Worcester in a town
about 15 minutes away.
And honestly, Worcester was our city.
So I'd like to think about this redistricting
as Jordan was talking about it, as the city of Worcester
being pertinent to its suburbs.
We wouldn't even call them suburbs.
We'd call them towns.
But then suburbia became a real movement.
And then there was sort of a disassociation.
The cities became a negative.
And now we're seeing cities emerge again.
And I'd really like to see us strengthen that association,
to see our towns recognizing, oh, we go to the city for this.
We don't have to create it for ourselves.
And that helps with sprawl.
And it helps with so much.
And it helps with our politics as well because we're
in it together, you know?
It's our city.
And these are our towns.
So it's kind of a regional mentality in some ways.
But I'd like to see us recognize that and get back
to that to some degree.
I think it's really healthy.
And I think it would be good, especially for Central Mass.
And I agree with Jordan.
We love Fall River and New Bedford.
But they're very different from where we are.
And we identify more with Western Mass and our colleagues
out there.
We share so much with them around issues, agriculture
especially.
And just feeling remote from Boston in general
is an important sentiment that I think we share, that I
think we'd like to think about.
We have some natural divides, like 128,
495, all those things.
But I'm glad to see everyone here.
And I just wanted to share that, that I
think we're moving in a different direction in terms
of how we think about our cities.
And that's something to consider politically, as well.
Thank you.
Would you want to elaborate that last statement a little bit?
I just think of our cities as being
kind of nodes and some of the natural boundaries
that we want to consider when we're
talking about districting.
And so I guess that's all I want to say,
is to look at geography, as well, as something
we need to consider.
And possibly--
Look at municipal boundaries as something we need to consider,
is that what you mean?
Yeah.
OK.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Other members?
Questions from the committee?
All right.
Thank you very much, Mary.
I'm going to recognize now Nelly Medina.
Is Nelly online?
Hello, Congressman [INAUDIBLE],, Brownsberger, Congressman
McGovern, and Mary Keefe.
My name is Nelly Medina.
Can you hear me?
Hello?
Yes, yes, you're online.
You're good.
We can hear you.
OK.
So as a community organizer and leader
of the 17th congressional district,
we want to ensure that communities
have a fair shot at electing candidates
who represent our unique needs and the capacity
to answer their concerns.
I live in the 17th congressional district,
where two district communities are now
spilling into each other.
At Lakeside in Columbus Park, the neighborhoods
began this gentrification process.
And it's most notable here.
The Columbus East-West Trail is now
in the backyard of public housing yard.
The diversity here is evident, as parks and playgrounds are
locked and then BIPOC residents are
on the wrong side of the fence.
The community is two neighborhoods.
There's nothing in common.
The district stretches into the town of Leicester,
where residents share less of a social identity
than a decade ago.
I think the Congressman is doing a really good job--
McGovern.
He represents his district well and is a friend
for so many of us living here.
We are living really differently.
And Worcester needs representation
and the opportunity to have our voices heard.
My concern is that if there was such a thoughtful process
and consideration into drawing the lines,
why are there disparities as evident as they are here?
We have some parts of Worcester that
are extreme poverty and some that are just bouncing
back as if life never happened.
We have to also take into consideration
all the trauma and all the loss and how desperate we are now
and how divided we are now because of COVID.
So I think we really need to think,
are the lines drawn well?
Is it fair just because the diversity is creating
unequal opportunities and a lack of equity
for people living within just miles away from one another
in the same district?
And so those are my concerns.
I yield my time.
Thank you.
Thank you very much for your testimony.
Are there questions from members of the committee?
I'm not seeing hands up.
But thank you very much for elevating the concerns
that you brought before us.
Thank you very much.
Thank you for listening.
I've got Solomon Stein, please, if Solomon is online.
Solomon, you're still on mute.
You can unmute, if you would.
My apologies, technical difficulties.
There you go.
There we go.
So I would like to start by introducing myself.
My name is Soloman Stein.
I'm a resident of Worcester's 13th state
legislative district, represented by John Mahoney,
2nd congressional district, Harriette Chandler Senate
district.
Thank you, Chair Brownsberger, Chair Moran
for starting off and convening this event.
I wanted to echo the comments of registrar Olberding and Ms.
González-Webster in expressing the appreciation of this
pandemic-era accessibility effort.
Hopefully, post-pandemic, the State House
will continue these efforts to have virtual meetings to ensure
that broader members of the public
can participate in events like this.
And as a member of the disability community
and someone who works extensively
with the local immigrant community,
I definitely appreciate the attention
the committee intends to pay to linguistic accessibility moving
forward.
So getting right into it, while I'm not here in the capacity
representing any organization, I am a constituent
who is active in the community with a number of local groups,
including the local Friends Committee,
doing immigrant advocacy, and Black Families Together,
which recently had a successful effort to remove SROs
from Worcester public schools.
As previous members of the panel have testified,
it is intimately understood by residents
here how important the formal structure of elections
are to ensuring that we get equitable representation,
as demonstrated by our fight over the at-large election
system in our municipal school committee here.
And we definitely appreciate how that trickles up
to higher levels of government.
I'm sure members of this committee
understand that at the outset of the pandemic,
the delayed implementation of the Student Opportunity Act
resulted in our schools losing out in approximately $20
million of funds.
So everyone here really appreciates
how the bureaucratic structures that
determine the lines of our districts
have very direct and material consequences
for our communities.
And as a diverse community with a substantial immigrant
population, we have significant internal diversity,
including linguistic diversity with Vietnamese speakers,
Cantonese speakers, Creole and French speakers.
So we understand the importance of having
districts that ensure that internal diversity is reflected
in the construction of those districts
so that we have smaller subcommunities of interests not
being divided up and not having their power or their voice
diluted.
With that in mind, I would like to reiterate
a testimony presented at an earlier hearing
by Chelsea School Committee Member Roberto
Jimenez, whose advocacy focused on the immigrant population.
It's very important that as we ensure
that we are drawing districts that
have a majority of residents from marginalized communities,
it's also important that we ensure those districts have
a majority of eligible voters from marginalized communities.
We don't want a situation where we're
creating facially fair districts that in fact deprive
marginalized communities of electoral voice.
In that line, I saw Representative Tyler
was on the call earlier.
Very appreciative of all her work
around the incarcerated population.
I hope this committee will be having a broad interpretation
of its mandate and will be working with its colleagues
on rectifying the problem of prison gerrymandering.
And I hope that because this committee
has been so consistently interested
in demographic representation and general equity
in government, that it will be exploring some more ambitious
innovations that other states have piloted,
such as multimember districts that
have been successfully used in New Hampshire and New Mexico,
Arizona, to improve gender parity
and demographic representation at all levels of government.
Thank you so much for your time.
Happy to take any questions.
Thank you for that thoughtful testimony.
Very helpful.
Appreciate it.
I'd like to give the chair Mike Moran an opportunity
to ask questions or make comments.
Solomon, thank you.
You did bring up the issue of prison gerrymandering.
And I agree with you 100% on that issue,
so much so that the committee 10 years ago,
when we did a sort of synopsis of what we learned and tried
to put some sort of blueprint in place for actions
that we could do between 2000 and 2010 and 2020, that
was one of the issues that we highlighted.
I think how we count prisoners in this state
could be looked at and, I think, could be done better.
I agree with you 100%.
And thank you for mentioning that because I think
that is a very important thing we
need to look at on a go-forward basis.
Thank you very much.
Other questions or comments from members of the committee?
Your testimony's appreciated.
Thank you very much.
Thanks for coming on.
Next, I've got a group again of people that
are sort of in the same list.
Let me start with recognizing the honorable Mel
Poindexter, a member of the Democratic National Committee,
to testify, please.
Let's make sure that Mel is getting promoted.
There you are.
[INAUDIBLE]
OK, thank you.
Thank you, both two chairs, Senator Brownsberger
and Representative Moran, as well as
the other members of the committee hosting
this public hearing tonight.
And I also thank you for your commitment to the charge
and the mission of engagement.
I'm going to be really brief because a lot
of the points that were raised today touches on my concerns.
10 years ago we went out on a mission
of drawing majority-minority districts.
And now we're at a point where, 10 years later, we
have a migration across the state where we have
many different communities--
Latinx, Black, Asian-American, Native American--
who have now moved into areas like Milford and Worcester
and CD2.
We've got movement in CD5 in Lowell and Lawrence
with Asian and Latinx communities.
In CD7, we have movement in cities
like Watertown and Belmont.
And now, to myself, I have the honor
of both being represented and working
with Senator Brownsberger and working
with Representative Moran.
But in many of these other communities,
many of the residents there don't
have the luxury of having the ability to have
a one-on-one conversation with many of these representatives
who represent their interests.
So the concern becomes, how do we
encourage those members or those people,
as this redistricting process, to feel
that this process is going to be fair, it's going to be just,
and it's going to enable them to participate
in a political process that for many feel a little
not invited in?
The hope here is that I would encourage,
as I've seen in working in the past with this committee,
that we use this opportunity to modify, create, and encourage
in the redraw district lines that enable many
of these communities who feel otherwise not
disenfranchised, including, as I'm glad was mentioned,
the immigrant community, that these disenfranchised
communities then see the opportunity to participate
in both a political and social process
as well as feeling that their issues, concerns of education
and health care are also and will be recognized in redrawing
a state where, again, migration in areas from Congressman Neal,
Congressman Lynch, Congressman Keating's areas,
the migration in Congressman Clark's area,
in these migrations,
we now have to be sensitive to recognizing
that many of the migration and the communities that have moved
in these areas feel that they are not completely engaged
in the political and social process.
So all I ask is that this group, again, in its wisdom,
consider in their drawing of the new maps
and the goal to try to engage and invite communities
otherwise disenfranchised to feel that they have
the opportunity to participate both politically and socially,
to be careful, to be wise, to accept
the inevitability that we must encourage others to participate
in a political process that otherwise, again,
you feel you haven't been completely engaged in.
At this point, I would like to [INAUDIBLE] of my time.
So thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak today.
Thank you very much for your testimony.
Are there members of the committee
that would like to make comments or ask questions?
Well, I guess hearing none, I'll just comment,
Mr. National Committeeman, that I definitely
think we want to be trying to make sure
that we promote engagement.
That's what we're all about in the process.
So that's something to keep in mind.
And I also want to, again, echo the same appreciation
for Congressman McGovern and his commitment,
as well, to not only engaging in this conversation
but in many other conversations where
he has taken the time, effort, and energy to encourage
the constituents in his congressional district
to feel the need and the opportunity
to express their concerns and needs.
So again, thank the panel and the committee members today
for giving me this opportunity to speak.
OK, thank you again.
Any other comments?
By the way, let me recognize that Representative Dan
Hunt has joined us.
Thank you for being with us.
Next, I've got Patrick Burke.
Hi, thank you.
My name's Patrick Burke.
I'm President of the Hampshire/Franklin Labor
Assembly.
And I work for the United Auto Workers Local
2322, which represent about 4,000 members throughout mostly
Western Massachusetts.
And yeah, I'm thankful for the committee chairs, Senator
Brownsberger and Representative Moran.
And I do remember 10 years ago, [LAUGHS]
when this process was happening.
And I think the right kind of balance was struck.
And I guess I'll echo what a few other folks from Hampshire
and Franklin counties have said, is
that having the two congressional representatives
for Western Mass is something that helps us.
I think that the Valley--
we have folks who commute across the Valley.
But we have different concerns that really both Congressional
Representative Neal and Congressional Rep McGovern
are helpful with.
And so I think that keeping that balance is helpful.
Again, we have a lot of medium-sized cities and towns
and then smaller rural communities
in Hampshire and Franklin.
And as much as possible to make sure that, again,
as folks have said, with the decrease in population
in some areas that communities that
are alike and have strong similarities are kept together.
And I also want to echo again that UAW,
as part of the Drawing Democracy Coalition,
really does support the creation of and the maintenance
of districts that represent people of color, Black,
Indigenous folks.
And it is important to ensure that--
this will probably be more relevant
for congressional district 1, where we also
have many members--
but that some of the work that was
done to ensure that in Springfield
and surrounding communities is also strengthened and certainly
support everything that my colleagues and friends
in Worcester have said about the balance that
needs to be struck there.
So again, thank you for letting me testify.
And thank you for all your work.
Thank you so much.
Are there questions from members of the committee?
Comments?
Thank you so much for testifying.
Appreciate the thoughts.
Let's see.
Can I have Anh Sawyer if they're available?
Anh, I believe you're already enlivened on the panel.
You can testify if you're available.
Good evening.
Thank you so much for having me here.
And thank you, Senator Brownsberger and Senator Moran.
I'm so glad to be here to share with you.
Listening to everything that everyone has been spoken
made me realize how fortunate I am to be here today.
I am a former Vietnamese refugee.
You may have seen me on the rooftop of the American embassy
on April 30, 1975, among many, many Vietnamese trying to leave
Vietnam during that time.
And I'm so glad to see Senator Moran here, as well.
I was so honored to be in the same group
with Senator Moran and Secretary Lopez, I think,
and Nobel laureate Duflo to receive an award
at the Massachusetts Immigrant and Refugee Advocacy.
And I'm here to speak on behalf of the immigrants
and refugees of Central Mass and of Worcester.
Specifically that's where I'm working.
And I have to say I learned so much from listening in.
But at the same time, I resonate with what Mel just said.
I feel totally disengaged and marginalized because I
didn't know enough about redistricting.
I didn't understand how it happened,
whether it's a good thing, or whether it's a bad thing.
And I have so much to learn.
And earlier someone mentioned that we also
need to inform people whether they want to be swapped or not.
And I have to say, we immigrants and refugees
would like very, very much to contribute,
to be a part of this process.
We risk our lives to be in this country,
not only for three meals a day.
But we want to make an impact for the country that
provides us shelter and hope and freedom,
not only for ourselves, not only for our children.
But we believe it's a good place, a place where
the rest of the world will benefit from our democracy
and our freedom and our liberty.
And so because of that, I would like to know how we will be--
Senator Brownsberger said that there will be languages
programmed for this meeting.
And I would like to know how we will
be able to do that so we can bring more people who
want to learn, who want to contribute, into this group.
The community has changed tremendously
since I've been with the organization since 2012.
Back then, we served mostly Southeast Asians
from at least 14 different countries.
But now we serve folks from Central America,
South America, Arabic speakers from Iran, Iraq, Syria.
And we even have people moving from different parts
of Massachusetts to Worcester who
are ethnic minorities of different Southeast Asian
countries, like the Hmongs, the [INAUDIBLE],, Rohingyas,
Myanmars.
And in the last nine years that I've
been with the organization, we learn to speak up.
We learn to voice our concern, our need.
And we're very grateful for the leaders of the city.
I heard Congressman McGovern was mentioned several times.
Representative Keefe is really wonderful.
But we also would like very much not
to be separated because we need all of our voices together.
I don't understand enough about redistricting.
So I cannot give you any suggestion or advices.
But I really feel that the immigrants and refugee
community in Worcester would like
to be like Chairman Moran one of these days,
that we'll be up there.
We will be leading this group.
We will be making good decisions,
like what he did 10 years ago, as Jordan mentioned.
So what does it take for us, for my community-based
organizations in all of these cities, not just in Worcester,
to be able to inform and educate our community members
so that we will be able to take part
in this incredible and important process?
And that's what I'm saying.
And I would like to thank you so much for being here.
What happened with Belarus today,
I realize that this country, to me and to many immigrants
and refugees, even though we still
have so much to learn and change, to us,
it is still heaven on Earth.
So I thank you.
Thank you so much for that inspirational testimony.
Just to respond directly to your question, what we do want to do
is schedule a series of hearings that will be
held in the specific languages.
So we'll be working through the Voter Table and all
the organizations that we can be in touch
with to make as many people as possible aware
of the opportunity to testify in particular languages.
So that is a priority for us.
So we will do that.
I believe Chairman Moran would also
like to make some comments.
Thank you, Chair Brownsberger.
We've been struggling with that issue of how
we can make this more inclusive than we
did 10 years ago, because 10 years ago I think it
was a pretty inclusive process.
We've done things like closed caption.
Our website is translated into 110 different languages.
But to be truly honest, and I think
that's the best way to deal with it,
we are struggling with how to include more
people in these hearings who are not English-first language
speakers.
And we have some ideas on how to do that,
as my co-chair just alluded to.
But we're always open to suggestions.
And we're always open to any comments you have
that can help us in that regard.
And also, thank you for your testimony.
And thank you for all the work you
do because without people like you,
some people out there don't have a voice.
So I very much appreciate all the work you do.
Any other questions, comments for Anh Sawyer?
Thank you so much for being with us tonight.
Again, your testimony is very much appreciated.
I've got Jake Lebovic.
Are you there?
Thank you, Jake.
Thank you.
Good evening.
I'd like to thank Chairman Brownsberger, Chairman Moran,
and the members of the committee for hosting this hearing
and for your continued commitment to engaging
community members throughout their districting process.
My name is Jake Lebovic.
I lead community outreach at Lawyers for Civil Rights.
LCR protects and expands voting rights for people of color
and traditionally disenfranchised groups.
And as part of this work, we, along with our partners here
under the Drawing Democracy coalition,
are ensuring that the upcoming redistricting
process is equitable, transparent,
and community driven.
I'm here today to echo the testimony provided
by the committee members and groups here before you
and to underscore the importance of keeping communities
of interest together when redrawing district lines,
particularly for the communities comprised predominantly
of immigrants and people of color
and cities such as Worcester and Northampton.
Through our partnerships and advocacy
on behalf of residents in CD2, we've
seen that when communities of color are empowered,
it strengthens our Commonwealth.
As Isabel mentioned, in Worcester this year,
LCR joined forces with Worcester Interfaith, the NAACP Worcester
Branch, and Voters of Color to challenge
the method of electing the Worcester School
Committee, which illegally diluted the vote of Latinx
and Black voters.
The at-large voting system repeatedly
produced an all-white school committee,
despite communities of color comprising nearly half
of Worcester's population and the student
body of Worcester public schools being even more diverse.
Community groups successfully brought a federal voting rights
lawsuit.
And important corrective action is now on the horizon.
LCR's advocacy in Worcester has also centered the experiences
of residents of color vis-á-vis the Worcester police
department, which recently failed to investigate a violent
racist attack against a Black woman and her children.
In the Pioneer Valley, we protected a student of color,
against whom the Pelham Elementary
School retaliated for reporting racial harassment.
So based on our firsthand work in the district,
we are firmly convinced that drawing lines that
maximize voting strength in communities
of color and immigrant communities
is a necessary first step toward making fair representation
a reality.
LCR will continue to be a resource
to elevate the voices of community members
and to ensure compliance with federal voting rights laws
on their behalf throughout the line-drawing process.
We're grateful for the opportunity
to support the residents in this district.
And we look forward to continuing
to work with the Drawing Democracy
coalition and this committee to foster
a more equitable and inclusive democracy.
Thank you.
Thank you very much for your testimony.
We appreciate the work that LCR does.
Any questions from members of the committee?
Comments?
All right, thank you for being with us and for weighing in.
Let's go next to Allen Johannsson, if he's present.
I'm not seeing him in the queue.
Does anybody else see him?
No.
OK, John Wickstead?
Not seeing him.
Barry [INAUDIBLE]?
Not seeing him.
Is Cara LeTrez here?
Not seeing her.
Anita Tanini from Chelmsford?
Not seeing her.
Kaylee Aguilar from East Boston?
Not seeing Kaylee.
Margo Barnett from Worcester?
Not seeing Margot.
I just promoted Margot to the panel.
Oh, thank you.
Margot, so you're up, Margot.
Thank you for being with us.
I'm sorry.
I signed on to listen.
I wasn't intending to testify.
OK, thank you for being with us to listen.
I see Beth Huang.
Are you ready to testify, Beth?
Beth is an--
I think I can speak for some reason.
You got it.
OK, great.
Well, it's so wonderful to join you, Chair Moran and Chair
Brownsberger.
My name is Beth Huang.
I'm the director of the Massachusetts Voter Table.
We are part of the Drawing Democracy Coalition.
Thank you for making this process
transparent and collaborative.
I think, based off of some of the testimony that we've heard,
we are eagerly anticipating the census data
that should come out in a legacy format in mid-August
of this year so that we can get a bit of a jumpstart.
And I think we are eagerly awaiting this data to really
have a good understanding of how communities have changed,
how much the downtown core of Worcester has grown,
how much UMass Amherst has created a boon for the Upper
Pioneer Valley.
And I think the main thing that we're looking to do
is understand the needs of our coalition members
in the Drawing Democracy Coalition in the balance
between urban and suburban districts,
particularly around Worcester.
I think, Chair Brownsberger, you've
caught a slight difference between two
phenomenal Worcester-based leaders.
And I think that we are eagerly awaiting the data
to really see what our preference for the balance
is like.
And then one other piece that we are really thinking about
is how demographic change within municipalities
will impact our redistricting process, particularly
the reprecincting process.
Something that we are very interested in
is moving reprecincting after redistricting.
Traditionally reprecincting has happened before redistricting.
But given the delay in the census data,
we're hoping to draw districts first
since there is a real deadline on November 8, 2021, one
year before the 2022 election, to ensure all House
members live in the district that they
are planning to run in.
And then, also, we're really hoping
to then be able to fit precincts inside
of the district instead of using the precincts as the building
blocks for districts.
So that is one extra wrinkle in the redistricting process.
And really thank you for the time to listen to constituents
tonight.
We heard a lot of important perspectives.
And we're appreciative of your time.
Thank you, Beth, for all the work
you're doing to make this process more transparent, more
participatory.
We view the work that the whole coalition
is doing as very important and helpful to the process.
Are there questions or comments from other members
of the committee?
OK.
Beth, thank you so much.
We will look forward to staying close in touch
with you as the process unfolds.
Let me see.
Does Kip Diggs--
I'm going through the late sign-ups on the form.
And I see your name there.
Representative Diggs, did you wish
to testify to the committee at this time?
No, I was having a problem jumping on.
That's all.
Sorry about that.
No problem.
All right, let me go to some of the other folks that
have signed in late and see if they're here.
Kip Faunch?
Is there a Kip Faunch here?
These may be people that actually wanted to listen.
That's a possibility.
How about Phillip Bishop?
David Holden?
Elliot Fratkin?
David Holden's [INAUDIBLE].
So I'll promote him.
Thank you.
Oh, David and Marcia Holden, got you.
Good.
David, you need to unmute yourself.
And we're looking forward to your testimony.
I'm sorry.
Can you hear me now?
Yes, we can.
Yes.
Hi, I'm David Holden.
I'm from Northampton, Massachusetts.
I just wanted to make a few comments.
First, I want to reaffirm what Mayor Narkewicz said earlier
about Congressman McGovern.
He's an excellent Congressman.
And he's been very active in this area, just not Northampton
but the entire Pioneer Valley.
Very quickly-- after we got redistricted
into his congressional district, he showed a great interest
in Northampton.
He's been here many times.
He set up his regional office on Pleasant Street here.
I feel very lucky that he is our congressman.
I think we are very lucky, the area here,
to have a congressman that's as responsive to our area.
Today, congressional districts are almost 3/4
of a million people.
And for local communities that have
a strong, sustained relationship with their congressman,
I think, is increasingly difficult and perhaps rare.
So I realize we are in the far Southwest corner
of his district.
And I would just urge your committee,
your joint committee, to consider
how well we are represented by the Congressman McGovern
and, I believe, how reciprocal our involvement with him
has been.
I think it's to the benefit of both parties.
And so I understand you have a very difficult task because,
again, these districts are far too big.
It occurred to me earlier today--
I was thinking of this--
if we went back to 1789, the first Congress in our 13
states, based on population now we'd
have 26 senators and four to five
congressional representatives.
I'm not sure that was how this was intended to work out.
But we have what we have to deal with today.
So I would just urge you to do everything
possible to keep us and the communities around us
still in his district.
Thank you.
Thank you very much for your testimony.
Are there other people who wish to testify?
Yes.
Sorry, it's Mary Keefe.
Mary, would you like to testify again?
Yeah, I just would like to say I really appreciate
the work of this committee 10 years ago.
People come into my office and look at the map of my district.
And they say, whoa, whoa, how did that happen?
It's just very unusual.
And I call it the snake.
But it's politics, it's people engaged,
it's people voting that craft this thing.
And that's how I was elected.
And I really appreciate it.
I really appreciate it.
It takes organizing.
It takes relationships.
And I think this is something we need to keep talking about,
is relationships and how we are connected to each other
and how our self interests are connected, as well.
So I'm really encouraged about this process.
And I really appreciate the conversation.
I don't know how many people from my district
might be here tonight.
I know some are.
But it's a grassroots conversation.
And we need it very badly in terms of engagement
and how government really works for people.
In Worcester, we love Jim McGovern.
Of course we love him.
You know, he's great.
But more and more, even just being from Worcester,
we know we're a bigger state than we actually govern around
sometimes.
So we need to organize ourselves--
Central Mass, Western Mass.
Let's have strong voices.
It's hard when we're losing population.
But continuing to educate people is really important,
or to enlighten people about how we are, why we are,
and what we could possibly do.
So sorry, it sounds like a campaign speech.
But I didn't mean that.
I just really believe it.
And we have a lot of work to do.
So--
Thank you for that.
We definitely have a lot of work to do.
And we'll be successful with your help
and with the help of all the other people who are testifying
and engaging with this process.
I thank you for your further testimony.
And I want to make sure that we've gotten in everybody
who does wish to testify.
I see somebody on the list that's just
calling themselves Mass Appeal.
We're going to promote you and see
whether you were somebody signed up or not because you're not
otherwise identified.
Mass Appeal is the news, I take it.
OK, so you're just witnessing.
You are observing the process, OK, unless you wish to testify.
You could unmute yourself if you wanted to.
All right, so at the moment, I am
believing that everybody who has wished to testify
has testified.
I'm going to sort of say, "going once,"
and then I'm going to wait for about 60 seconds in case
somebody is desperately struggling to figure out
how to raise their hand or communicate with the committee.
I don't see anything coming up in the chat.
Do I?
I don't see anybody texting, anybody raising a hand.
So I'm going to conclude that we're ready to adjourn.
And if my co-chair would like to make a motion, we could.
I would love to make a motion.
I'd like to just, if I could, say
a few things before I do that.
Please.
I would just like to thank everybody who
attended this hearing today.
I'd also like to thank all the people associated
with the Drawing Democracy Coalition.
That coalition 10 years ago was very helpful to us
in instructing us and giving us feedback on some of the things
we were trying to accomplish.
That relationship is still alive and well.
Whether you're with the Drawing Democracy Coalition
or you just came to testify tonight,
we are happy to have you.
And your words are not going unheard.
And I think you should know that.
Also, from just a pure logistical point of view
and a numbers point of view, it's
likely that the 2nd congressional district
and the 1st congressional district
are going to see some changes.
That's not of our doing.
It's the simple fact that population shift and population
growth is what it is.
So you're likely to see some changes.
And your comments and suggestions
here will be heavily considered when we make those changes.
And hopefully, at the end of the day,
you will like what you see.
So thank you, my co-chair, Senator Brownsberger.
And I'd like to, at this point in time,
make a motion to adjourn.
Can I have a second?
Second.
All those in favor?
Aye.
And any opposed?
With that, we'll consider the hearing adjourned.
Thank you very much.
Thank you, all.
Have a good night.
Thank you.
Nicely done, people.
Thank you, Chairman.
Appreciate it.
Thank you.
Thank you, Representative Straus, for attending.
I know we didn't--
Oh, yes.
I'm sorry, Representative Straus.
I failed to recognize you.
Thank you for being with us, sir.
Love you, Billy.
[LAUGHS]
[MUSIC - BARBARA BONNEY, "AVE MARIA"]