[MUSIC PLAYING]
--get started, Mr. Chairman.
And the only indulgence I'd ask is, if possible, we
could have Senator Rodrigues testify before he runs off
to present on the ARPA bill at our Senate caucus,
which is starting at this time.
Sure.
All right, we'll get him up right away then.
All right, so thank you.
I'd like to start this hearing of the committee
of redistricting-- on redistricting.
And this is the comment hearing for the congressional maps
that were released a week ago.
So I'm going to pass it over to my Senate cochair.
My name is Michael Moran.
I'm the [INAUDIBLE] Suffolk rep and the house chair
of the redistricting committee, and my cochair
is Senator Brownsberger.
Senator, I want to pass it over to you to introduce some
of your colleagues, say some remarks,
and if you'd like to bring Senator Rockericks up
right now, that's fine with me.
OK, thank you.
Maeve, could you promote Senator Rodrigues
so he'd be able to testify?
Thank you.
I just want to acknowledge, appreciate the collaboration
you and I have had, Mr. Chairman, working together
to solicit the broadest possible input from everybody
across the state and on today's hearing
on the congressional maps and on the governor's council maps,
which are also up for comment at this time.
So I thank you for accommodating me
by getting Senator Rodrigues on so
that he can make his testimony.
You promote Senator Rodrigues [INAUDIBLE]??
He's in?
Senator, good morning.
Good morning, Mr. Chairman.
How are you?
I'm OK.
Thank you for your work over there,
and thank you for taking the time
to testify at this hearing.
And what do you have to say?
Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, to you
and to Senator Brownsberger.
Thank you for, first of all, the hard work you've
done on the committee on redistricting
over the course of the last few months.
You've done yeoman's work, and it should be applauded.
And I appreciate you taking me out of turn,
as Senator Brownsberger said, that we are concurrently
beginning a Senate Democratic caucus on the OPA bill
that we'll be debating tomorrow with 720 amendments.
But I wanted to comment on the proposed maps
on congressional redistricting.
Maybe I've been around-- this is my third redistricting vote,
so I've been around for a while.
I say that the last time, back in,
I guess it was 2012 that we voted
on congressional redistricting, I actually
supported the map as proposed by that time
by the minority caucus, Minority Leader Tom,
because it unified Bristol County.
And that did not happen.
What had happened at that time is
Fall River, the district that I represent,
was split in half between the 4th and 9th
congressional district.
I never liked that, but it is what it is.
And in this proposed map, while Fall River is made whole,
it is shifted into the 4th congressional district--
as you know, has its base up in Newton and Brookline.
When Representative Kennedy, Congressman Kennedy,
left to the district as his congressman
to run for US Senate, and there were a number of candidates
that threw their hat in the ring to replace him,
all from the Brookline and Newton area.
They have and they will continue to control the voting
block in the district.
And it was interesting to hear former Congressman Kennedy's
comments about this proposal.
I think he-- and I don't want to misquote him.
But the quote was something like, absolutely, Fall River
and New Bedford should be united period.
And Fall River has to fight twice as hard
to get half as much.
So I am going to ask the committee
to consider amending its proposal
to ensure that Fall River and New Bedford are aligned
in the same congressional district
and aligned in the 9th Congressional District.
Just a little bit of history--
South Coast wasn't even a term until 30 years ago,
when our hospitals, the big hospital in Fall
River, Charleston Memorial Hospital, and the big hospital
in New Bedford, St. Luke's Hospital,
realized it was in their best interest
to join together into the South Coast Health System.
And since then, they have thrived.
Our chambers, we had over 100 years, the city of New Fall
River and the city of New Bedford,
each had their own respective chamber of commerce.
After much debate, they both determined
it was in the best interest of their members of the people
they represent, the business community, that they
join forces under a one South Coast chamber.
I am going to argue that it is in the best
interests of the citizens that I represent in Fall River
and in the South Coast-- as you know,
I represent seven communities, 185,000 people
in and around the South Coast, primarily in Fall River.
That it's in our best interest, again,
that we join what the hospitals realized,
what the chambers of commerce realized,
that there is more power, there is more strength,
there is more commonality of interest
between Fall River and New Bedford,
notwithstanding the sibling rivalries.
One will play out in a few weeks on Thanksgiving
day, the football game.
It is what it is.
We see the same sibling rivalries up
in Merrimack Valley.
But we also realize that Lawrence and Lowell--
we know they are in the same congressional district,
as they should be.
Fall River and New Bedford have so many commonality
of interests, whether it's South Coast Rail, where
we have collectively fought for over 30 years with South Coast
Rail, and it's happening.
It's being constructed now because we have worked together
on the issue, whether it's offshore wind--
both cities are actively engaged in the offshore wind industry.
Bristol Community College has campuses both in Fall River
and in New Bedford.
They have the National Offshore Wind Institute actually
in the city of New Bedford.
Both cities have state piers that are actively involved
in the offshore wind industry.
The blue economy, our public higher
educational institutions, like UMass Dartmouth that's
in the center, we call it--
I like to call UMass the Switzerland of the South Coast
because everyone, the entire greater Fall River and New
Bedford communities love and support
the University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth.
And last and probably most importantly
is the fact that these two cities represent the largest
concentration of Portuguese Americans
and Azoreans in the world outside of Portugal.
There are more Azoreans, whether they be immigrants, first,
second, or third--
and now some are even getting to the fourth generation,
of Portuguese immigrants-- there are
more in Fall River and New Bedford
than there actually are in the Azores.
The shared cultural heritage is woven
into the heart of both cities.
Both cities are home to the churches,
the Portuguese speaking, the Portuguese language churches.
Portuguese Americans, Portuguese speakers
from throughout the suburbs flock into either Fall River
or New Bedford every Sunday to attend mass
in one of those churches.
We have, you have, this legislature has spent
a lot of time, a lot of energy and a lot of conversations
ensuring that communities of interest,
especially communities of interest based on race,
based on ethnicity maintain in a group together
in order to ensure that they have
full power of these joint communities.
We've did it for the Black and Brown community.
We've spoken about it for the Hispanic community.
We've spoken about it for the Haitian community.
We spoke about it for the Cape Verdean community.
Why the Portuguese Americans, the Azorean Americans
not getting the same respect, not
getting the same support and interest or concern
about splitting the two cities that house the most
number of Azorean Americans?
Certainly, the suburban community surrounding both Fall
River and New Bedford are home to large concentrations
of Azorean Americans, but it is the cities
that are the hub of their churches,
of their cultural organizations, of their Philharmonic bands.
It's where they call home.
And I would ask and hope that the committee reconsider
their proposal and ensure that the Portuguese Azorean
communities of Fall River and New Bedford
are treated the same as we treated
every other common communities based on race and ethnicity.
And with that said, I want to thank you again
for your courtesy for taking me out of order.
I'm available, if you want, to answer any questions
from either chairman or members of the committee.
Otherwise, I will jump onto my caucus and talk about OPA.
Thank you, senator.
Does any members of the committee
have any questions for Senator Rodrigues?
Hearing none.
Thank you for your testimony, senator,
and good luck with your OPA.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Goodbye, everyone.
OK, so now we're just going to go back
to the regular order of business.
I will first hand it over to Senator Brownsberger
for the introduction of any of his members
or any comments he would like to say.
And then he will then hand it back to me.
I will be the chair of the rest of this hearing.
I have a few comments and open statements.
I want to introduce the members of my committee that are here,
and then we'll get right to the Senators Keating, who I believe
has given us a video because he is out of the country,
and Senator Auchincloss.
As it was set to testify, Senator Lynch
is on the list to testify.
But he called me, and he wanted to support these maps.
But I said, look, and he's got a busy day, so he didn't really--
it wasn't necessary for him to get on and testify.
But I appreciate him taking the time to call.
But at this point in time, I want
to turn it over to my colleague, Senator Will Brownsberger.
Oh, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And I won't add to the day any further.
I just wanted to also record for the record
that Senator Montigny has submitted
written testimony in favor of combining
the coastal communities of Fall River and New Bedford
within the 9th.
And he just wanted to be on the record for that
but did not want to take time away
from the testifying public.
So thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back to you.
OK, thank you, Senator.
I am going to introduce the members of the House
that are here, taking time out of their schedule.
I greatly appreciate them doing that.
We'll start, and then I want to introduce
Representative Fiola from Fall River, who
is on this committee.
She has a few comments that she'd like to make.
And then, I have a little bit of a presentation after that,
and we'll get to the testimony after that.
So here in attendance is Sarah Peake, the gentlelady
from Provincetown.
Thank you for being here.
Joe Wagner, the gentleman from Chicopee is here.
Thank you, Joe.
Frank Moran, the gentleman from Lawrence.
Thank you, Joe, for being--
thank you, Frank, for being here.
The gentleman from Mattapoisett is also
a member of this committee.
Billy Straus, thank you, Billy, for being here.
Bud Williams all the way from Springfield
with his Red Sox jacket on-- thank you, Bud, for being here.
Tricia Farley-Bouvier, way out there
in the Western part of the state in Pittsfield--
thank you, Tricia, for being here.
Chynah Tyler from Boston--
thank you, Chynah, for attending.
Kip Diggs from down the Cape, we're playing golf today.
Kip, it's a nice day out there.
But thank you for taking time to come here
and listen to this testimony.
I'd also like to--
the ranking member of the committee,
the ranking Republican member of the committee,
the gentleman from Auburn, Paul Frost.
Thank you, Paul.
And I'd like to thank Kim Ferguson from Holden.
Thank you for being in attendance.
Next up, I'd just like to introduce Carole
Fiola from Fall River to--
she has something she'd like to say as well.
Carol.
Thank you, Mr. Chair and Mr. Chair and all the committee
members.
If you hear my dog, every time I get on Zoom, he tries to bark
and doesn't listen, so I'm going to just feed him snacks.
So I apologize.
Today, I'm so proud to be a part of this committee,
and I am testifying today as a member
of the committee in support of the proposed maps that
are in front of us that make Fall River unified
into one district, something we have long wanted and waited
for.
We have been split for way too many years, approximately 20.
We are finally unified in this map.
We are finally the largest community in our district.
We have the full attention, in this way,
of our Congressperson.
It happens to be Jack Auchincloss,
but let's just talk district for a minute.
We finally have the ability to be
strong as a community in our district.
We also have the opportunity, because we're
talking-- you've mentioned the 4th and the 9th.
I hear that mentioned.
The 9th has always been unified in a district,
and they have had a Congressperson fighting
for their individual specific needs.
However, what makes this map, this proposed map,
so vital and so effective going forward in the next 10 years
is the fact that this South Coast
region, as was so well mentioned by the Senator,
will be represented by two Congress voices.
This region will have the strength of two federal voices
when we need them to come together on mutual interests.
We've talked-- and what was mentioned
was South Coast Rail, the blue economy, wind energy.
Those are all projects, and very important economic projects,
that have occurred over the last many years
with the strength of two federal voices.
Fall River, New Bedford are friends.
And as the Senator said, on sports days and other times,
we've been adversaries.
We are two very large cities.
We have unique needs.
Recently, I'd heard, you know, we have the fishing industry.
Well, we don't.
New Bedford has the fishing industry,
and that requires a lot of federal assistance
and a lot of federal help.
Fall River has no fishing industry.
So just to mention as an example,
we need strong voices supporting our cities individually
and unified.
I know there are a lot of people to testify today.
I don't want to take away from that time,
but I do want to submit for the record
a statement that was signed in this very brief time
since I've been made aware that there
was this desire, all of a sudden,
to move the districts together.
But after six months and 20 public hearings and hundreds
of residents testifying, the Joint Committee
on Redistricting released these proposed maps,
and Fall River is no longer divided.
We had a transparent, thoughtful congressional redistricting
process.
This letter goes on to say, after two decades of waiting,
this map honors the imperative that has been put forth.
Fall River will be the biggest city in the 4th
and will no longer stand in any community's shadow
or will be second to a community's needs.
It will stand as its own city, not part of the region.
It will be front and center for its US representative
to champion.
Whereas we've successfully advocated and bringing
wind energy to the South Coast Rail to fruition,
along with our developing waterfront
and the blue economy, among other projects,
we are best served to continue to work
with our neighboring South Coast communities
with the strength of two congressional voices.
We are excited for all of Fall River
to be in the proposed Mass 4th congressional district.
And this is signed by many--
some who will speak today, but 11 o'clock on a Tuesday
is somewhat difficult for many.
However, Mayor Paul Coogan, Fall River resident; myself;
State Representative Pat Haddad from the 4th congressional
district; Cliff Ponte, Jr., City Council President
of the City of Fall River; Linda Pereira, city council,
Fall River resident; Mark Costa, Fall River School Committee
Vice Chair, Fall River resident; John Mitchell, Bristol County
Commissioner and former Fall River mayor, Fall River
resident; BJ McDonald, register of deeds, Fall River resident.
Nick Christ, President and CEO of BayCoast bank;
Michael Lund, owner of Borden Light Marina, resident
of Fall River and former city councilor of Fall River;
Ron Wilson, owner of Re Max Right Choice, resident
of Fall River; Ken Fiola, Executive Vice President
and Bristol County Economic Development Consultant,
Fall River resident; Joan Medeiros, Fall River resident;
Frank Marchione, owner of Boardwalk Plaza Fall River.
Joe Constancia, Laborers, Local 610; Anthony [INAUDIBLE],,
property developer, Fall River resident;
Gerald Donovan, President G&J Properties, Fall River,
Fall River resident; Natalie Mello,
President of Bank Street Neighborhood Association, Fall
River resident; Karl Hetzler, President
at H&S Tool, Fall River resident;
John Sylvia, Niagara Neighborhood,
Fall River resident; Paul Hart, former school committee
and Fall River resident.
And there are many more that would have signed on,
but time was short.
I just want to say, thank you, to this committee
and to the chairs for putting the proposed 4th district.
We support it, and we hope it will stay.
Thank you.
Thank you, Carole, for your testimony.
Certainly, we just saw and heard two sides of this issue.
I have to--
Josh Cutler is here from the town of Duxbury.
Thank you, Josh.
I forgot to mention you earlier.
As you saw in the previous maps, when we had commentaries,
I feel a need to give people explanations
on why we did what we did.
This is something that-- if you go
back 20 years ago, these discussions were never had,
because quite frankly, these decisions
were made in such a way that these discussions weren't
allowed to happen.
I think it's important that everyone
understand the rationale behind doing
what we did with this map.
And I'm very fortunate in the fact
that I was here 10 years ago when we did this,
and I was the chair of this committee 10 years ago.
So I have a little bit of institutional knowledge
on why the maps look the way it does.
So if I could, if you just give me a few minutes here,
I want to walk you through some maps and some rationale
on why we did what we did.
10 years ago, there was a different Senate President
and there was a different Senate Chair.
There was a different speaker.
But I was involved in this process 10 years ago.
And when we looked at the maps that we had 10 years ago,
and I want to put them up on the screen right now,
the map from three maps ago, this
is what you were looking at.
Now, if any of you looked up the word, gerrymandering,
you would probably look at this map.
If you look at Jim McGovern, the blue district,
it stretched from Worcester all the way down to Fall River.
And anybody who testifies today and brings up
the word, gerrymandering, I want you
to look at the brown district, which was then district number
four.
That district is the current 4th district,
and it stretches all the way up through,
barely touching each other, wraps around the 9th,
and lands up in Brookline.
And then, you have this district here that starts in Quincy
and comes all the way down to the tip of P-town.
If you draw a line, if you see the line right there going
across, 10 years ago, there was 1.5 million people
that lived south of that line.
1.5 million people, and not a single Congressman
put their head on a pillow at night in that area.
We believed 10 years ago that that was not right.
And 10 years ago, we went from 10 congressmen down
to nine congressmen at the time John Oliver retired.
But we still thought it was important to fix this problem,
because we felt the people of Bristol, Plymouth, Barnstable,
Dukes, and Nantucket County deserved
at least one-- at least one.
Their population would tell you that they may deserve two,
but that they at least deserved one congressperson.
We moved ahead with that being one of the principles
that we had put in place, and I will move now ahead
to what we did in the next map.
We created this district right here,
if you follow my guide here.
This was an incumbent free district.
It was an incumbent free district
that, eventually, Congressman Keating moved into.
He moved to Bourne, and he has been representing it
for 10 years.
But the goal of drawing this was to make sure
that this district had somebody that lived in it,
so that this part of the state was
treated equitably when it came to representation
in Washington.
I had always thought that we should
have put Fall River in the 4th 10 years ago.
But at the time, Congressman Frank
was the congressman at the time, and we decided to keep forward
with the way it is today.
So that was the map we did 10 years ago.
If you look out west, you have now a map
where Jim McGovern is, I think, appropriately
placed in and around Worcester.
You have the Berkshires and Lowell Worcester County.
You have-- Cape Cod and Plymouth County now have a congressman.
We thought that the end result of that
was good for this region.
But like I said, there are 1.5 million people
that live down there.
It's now 1.6 because the growth over 10 years.
They grew by 100,000.
So now, you flash ahead to this redistricting.
And when you look at the majority-minority district that
we have, and you look at the 8th congressional district,
which is Congressman Lynch and Ayanna Pressley,
when you value a majority-minority district
and you want to make it stronger,
along the seam between Lynch's district and Ayanna
Pressley's district, we switched some population out of Ayanna
Pressley's district into Congressman Lynch's district,
making that district a stronger majority-minority district--
strongest one we've ever had in the Commonwealth.
When you do that, the 8th congressional district now
has an extra 40,000 people--
40,000 people in the 8th.
If you simply look at this map and you
ask yourself the basic question of,
what do you do with that 80,000 people,
you can only give it to two people.
You can give it to the 9th, and you can give it to the 4th.
You can't give it to the seventh,
because that waters down the majority-minority district.
So those 40,000 people have to be dispersed either to the 4th
or to the 9th.
You can only give so much to the 9th,
because the 9th can't give any population to anybody,
because it's surrounded by water.
So the rest of it goes to the 4th.
When you look at the sheer geography and the numbers,
and you look at the tenth largest
city in the Commonwealth, which is Fall River,
it became a natural place for us to look
to unify a big city down in the South Coast region,
making it the biggest city in the 4th in sheer number,
and giving it an opportunity someday,
I believe, to have a Congressman from this general region
right here.
If you take that line, like I said, right now,
and you draw it across and you look south of that line
in district four, 55% of the population
lives in this section right here.
To me, that is equity on a map, and that's what--
giving people the ability to have
a candidate of their choice.
Now, as we saw in the last election, unfortunately,
nobody ran from this region.
But I think, in the future, you're
going to see more and more people down here
look at this seat as a potential for them to run for.
And if we're right, this region, over a 10-year period
of reconfiguring these districts,
will have two congressmen or women that call this home
and put their head on a pillow down there.
That was the only reason we did what we did, the only reason we
did what we did.
Now, we can have a discussion, if we
were right or wrong about that.
That's what this whole process is about.
And as I said to my co-chair, and I
have said millions of times, and my colleagues on this committee
have said, this is what this process is about.
It's a discussion.
But I feel a need.
I feel a need to tell you and explain to you the rationale
on why we did this.
You can disagree with it.
There's nothing wrong with that, and we can have a discussion.
But I feel the need to tell you why we did what we did.
And just go back and look, again, at the map the way
it used to be, three maps ago.
All right?
Look at that.
And now, look at the most recent map.
Big difference, big difference.
I would argue, huge improvement to the map on how it looks.
Again, we can have an argument about that.
We can have a discussion about that.
But in my opinion, over the last two redistricting cycles,
we've tried very hard for there to be some equity
and representation in this area of Bristol, Plymouth,
Barnstable, Dukes, and Nantucket County.
And that's why we eventually did what we did.
So now that I've given you my explanation on why
we did what we did, I want to move forward with testimony.
And I think Congressman Keating is here.
We are going to have Congressman Keating testify first,
and then Congressman Auchincloss will be after that.
Congressman Keating.
Hi, my name is James Quigley.
I'm representing Congressman Keating today,
as he's overseas with Speaker Pelosi and the other members
of Congress for the UN Climate Change conference in Glasgow.
Before I begin, I just want to see
if I have screen-sharing capability, so I can
play his pre-recorded remarks.
[INAUDIBLE]
Yeah.
You should have it now.
OK, thank you very much.
With that, I will--
with your permission, I'll play his remarks now.
I want to thank the Committee for allowing
me to record and submit my testimony today,
as I'm currently traveling with Speaker Pelosi.
I want to thank the committee for allowing
me to record and submit my testimony today,
as I'm currently traveling with Speaker Pelosi for the UN
Climate Change conference in Glasgow,
as part of my chairmanship of the Foreign Affairs' climate
subcommittee.
I appreciate the Committee hearing the concerns
from so many of us who believe critical changes are needed
to the draft congressional maps for the South Coast region.
Furthermore, it speaks well to the process
that the Committee has shown it responsiveness
in addressing similar concerns with the recent state senate
map, concerns that will be met if the cities of Fall
River and New Bedford are united on the revised plan.
My views are informed by eight years of representation
in the region, and specifically in the two
anchor cities of Fall River and New Bedford that
serve as its hub.
In a little more than a year from now,
this district will be set 10 more years
and will far exceed any tenure I may be honored to serve for.
It's because of this perspective,
I realize the decision should not
be about the person who represents this area,
but about the people who are being represented.
Every 10 years, there are a number of key principles
that we return to each time we have
to take a new redistricting process.
Some of them are straightforward and practical, such as
compactness or contiguity.
And others, like the preservation
of communities of interest, are at the heart
of what makes a district tick.
It creates the identity.
It forms the character, and it ensures better representation
by amplifying the voice of those who
would be overlooked in districts that are centralized
in other core areas.
As many of us here know, Fall River, New Bedford
built their reputations on self-determination
and the ability to rise above challenging circumstances.
From early on, these two cities provided unrivaled opportunity
for those willing to earn it.
The work wasn't easy, however.
The hours were long.
The conditions were often difficult.
But with Fall River at the center of the American textile
manufacturing, and New Bedford lighting the world
with whale oil, it was undeniable
that the efforts of those men and women laboring so hard
was paying off.
The prospects of succeeding on one's work,
of being able to build a family, of making a future,
was alive in these cities.
And the immigration numbers bear that out.
From there, a deep-seated culture
began to take root in both cities.
And between the cities, there was a flourishing
and a continuity in progress that exist to this day.
Over the years, however, the economic ties
have shifted, like so many other cities
with foundations based on production in a few key areas.
The changing dynamics of manufacturing and commodities
trade recede in a way that left both Fall River and New
Bedford struggling to compete.
Despite these difficult undercurrents,
the two cities have forged ahead with progress, largely
as a result of the sheer will of their respective populations.
These two areas have adapted and survived over the years,
with no expectation that anything would ever merely
be given to them.
Key investments in workforce, investment education,
and health care--
they've started to pay off.
The long-planned and hard-earned development of the offshore
wind industry on the South Coast has evolved from
the challenging yet vital idea of harnessing the strength
of offshore winds into the creation of an economic
powerhouse, estimated to create 43,000 new jobs by 2030--
well-paying jobs that will lift the current and future
generations of those in the region
that has made good on its promise
to invest in its own workforce.
Coordination between the cities of New Bedford
and Fall River and the entire South Coast
has broadened the horizon beyond anything
that either could be accomplished individually.
Now, there are well-known rivalries between the cities.
Durfee and New Bedford High have gone [INAUDIBLE]
in football fields since 1893.
But these contests are over before anyone sits down
at the Thanksgiving dinner table.
You know, I heard provincial arguments
that as separate congressional districts,
each city would be freer and more effective to go it alone,
as two teams with two coaches.
And federal grants and resources are more competitively obtained
when they're regional and collaborative,
working together.
The clear and unambiguous approach
has gone forward to consolidate the South Coast
as it's moved swiftly to accelerate
beyond the incremental progress that it's achieved
so far, whether through the creation of the One South Coast
Chamber of Commerce to focus on opportunities for continued
growth, the long-awaited construction of South Coast
Rail, a regional health care system,
an expansion of the agreement among the South Coast
higher education and training institutions.
There's no rational argument that a division
would be beneficial.
Additionally, separating out these two cities
divides the Latino community, which
comprises 20% of the New Bedford and 10% of Fall River,
and it splits the largest Portuguese-American
congressional district of the United States of America.
It just-- it's in the shared heritage and the shared
economic challenges that tie these two cities together.
It's the everyday issues facing the families
who call these cities home.
My staff and I know this firsthand,
after hundreds and hundreds of Fall River office
hours, more than every community in the district combined.
And the district office in New Bedford
that sees nonstop foot traffic seeking assistance
on immigration and another federal issues.
The proposed decoupling of Fall River and New Bedford
would disenfranchise those who've
worked so many years to create the unity that
is now coalescing throughout the entire region.
And though these two cities and the immigrants that
have labored for generations to build and sustain them,
they don't seek anything that hasn't been earned.
It's another thing entirely, however,
to deny them the progress that has finally arrived.
As a political process itself, redistricting
reflects electoral issues.
But the effects of splitting these two anchor cities
would be long-term, and they'd be profound.
And short-term political considerations,
no matter how they're argued, would pale in comparison.
Thank you very much for allowing this opportunity.
And I thank you for considering this important decision, one
that will affect this region for decades to come.
Thank you.
Thank you, Congressman, for your video testimony.
We will move now to Congressman Jake Auchincloss
for his testimony.
Congressman Auchincloss?
Good morning, Chairman Moran and Chairman Brownsberger.
Thank you for allowing me to testify.
Thank you to the Committee for your thoughtful and transparent
work over the last months on this redistricting process.
You produced a good map, and I am testifying today
to encourage you to ratify the proposed map.
After 20 years, it unites Fall River,
which has been a longstanding and repeated request
from the citizens of Fall River, which
I know this committee heard over the course of more
than 20 hearings that you engaged in to gather feedback
broadly across the Commonwealth.
This map unites Fall River.
It will ensure that Fall River is the biggest
city in the Massachusetts 4th.
Its needs are going to be front and center
for any member of Congress representing
this district as the biggest city in the district,
as the flagship city.
Fall River is unique, both politically and economically.
As Representative Fiola indicated,
its economic future is not oriented as strongly
as its neighbors towards its commercial port
or towards commercial fishing.
Instead, it is more economically oriented
with other southeastern gateway cities like Taunton
and Attleboro, also in the Massachusetts 4th, in that it
has a long and proud history of precision manufacturing--
textiles, metallurgy, jewelry across these three
different cities, and today, medical device technology,
robotics.
These three gateway cities as well,
actually, as cities in Rhode Island
have a strong economic geography that unites them,
that is not as oriented towards commercial fishing
or the port of New Bedford.
Fall River is also very focused on urban renewal and housing
and economic development.
And this issue as well is shared with other gateway cities
in the Massachusetts 4th, like Attleboro and Taunton,
that they're all focused on expanding affordable housing
and improving downtown retail and walkability.
And we've seen this imperative in the bipartisan
infrastructure bill that we just passed last week,
which has money and policy in there
for bringing two-grade elevated highways that
have bifurcated neighborhoods.
This is a perfect project for Fall River and one
that I look forward to working with the Mayor
on bringing to the city, so that their waterfront
development can continue.
Now, of course, broad representation for the South
Coast is going to remain vital.
And to date, there have been two members
of Congress advocating for the South Coast,
and it has worked well.
One example has been offshore wind,
where my colleague from the 9th and I
worked together to advocate for the National Offshore Wind
Institute, funding for training and workforce development
to take advantage of this unparalleled opportunity
in renewable energy off the coast of Massachusetts.
Another example has been on the Transportation Infrastructure
Subcommittee of Maritime Affairs.
I am the Vice Chair of that Subcommittee
for Maritime Transportation and the Coast Guard.
I'm the only member from Massachusetts
on that subcommittee.
And so when issues come up that I
think might affect New Bedford, I
make sure to be hearing from New Bedford's mayor and his staff,
so that I can ask questions that elevate
the needs of New Bedford.
That's an example of why having two members from the South
Coast can be helpful, because we can't always
be everywhere at the same time.
And this expands the reach of the South Coast
into all the areas that Congress engages in.
It also ensures that the lusophone community
between New Bedford and Fall River
have two members of the Portuguese-American caucus.
We have been working in that caucus
on recognizing Portuguese heritage,
with a dedicated month, on ensuring vaccine
delivery and distribution in the Azores
and on keeping the Portuguese language
as an NSA-recognized language for accreditation
and for federal support.
So having those double voices on the caucus
can expand the power of the lusophone community
in the South Coast.
I want to close by addressing the question of the diversity
of the 4th congressional district, which I think
is one of its key strengths.
The 4th congressional district is socioeconomically,
ideologically, geographically one of the most diverse
in New England.
We've got rural, suburban, urban areas, vote red
and blue, commute to Boston and Providence.
And that is a strength.
That is a strength of a congressional district
to have the full fabric of the Commonwealth within it
to contain multitudes.
I think it makes me a more effective representative
in Congress.
I think it makes any representative
from this district more effective in Congress.
And I think that diversity should
be heralded as a strength, rather than something
that needs to be workshopped.
And I want to really end with the same appeal
that my friend and colleague from the 9th
made, which is to listen to the voices of those
from Fall River.
We have heard or will hear, either
in written or verbal testimony, from the current and former
mayor of Fall River, from the person who
ran against the current mayor of Fall River,
from members of the school committee and the city council,
from business leaders and labor leaders,
all saying that this map that this committee worked
so hard on, that you brought in so much feedback to improve,
is a good map.
It's good for Fall River.
It makes the 4th district a better district,
and I encourage you to ratify it.
Thank you.
Thank you, Congressman, for your testimony.
Does any member of the committee have any questions
they would like to ask the congressperson?
Hearing none.
I'm sure you have a busy day.
Thank you for taking time to testify.
And we're going to move on now to our next person, who
is the mayor of Fall River, Paul Coogan.
While we're getting him on, I do want
to recognize a few of my colleagues that have joined us.
My Vice Chair, best Vice Chair in the building--
the gentleman from Lawrence, Marcos Devers.
Thank you, Marcos, for taking time out of your schedule.
Also from the Merrimack Valley, from the great city
of Haverhill, Andy Vargas.
Thank you, Andy, for taking time to be with us today.
I want to thank the Committee for giving me the opportunity
to speak today.
As the mayor of the largest city in the proposed 4th district,
I commend the Committee for the work
they did on this redistricting plan,
and I want you to know I wholeheartedly support
the work you did.
I know it was done in an open, transparent, and honest method,
and it is something that Fall River has been
waiting for for a long time.
As a resident of the 4th district
and a resident of Fall River, I want
the Committee to know I strongly support your plan as proposed.
The redistricting will allow us to have two partners
in the South Coast--
Representative Bill Keating, who I
think the world of, and our new representative,
Jake Auchincloss, who is also a strong advocate
for the city of Fall River.
These two working together can bring the necessary support
across the entire South Coast, and we really, really
would like to have two congressmen.
I said that at the first hearing when
we were talking about Fall River,
so I see nothing changing, except one
represents Fall River, and one represents New Bedford.
And I trust that the Committee's hard work and proposed plan
will be accepted.
And I really want everybody to know that, going forward,
we support the work of the Committee,
and that's about all I'm going to say today.
I know you have a bunch of people that want to talk.
But I appreciate the opportunity to speak.
It means a lot.
Thank you, guys.
Thank you, Mayor Coogan.
If any members of the committee have
any questions for the mayor?
Hearing none, thank you for your testimony, Mr. Mayor,
and get back to running that great city.
Next, we have the mayor of New Bedford,
Jon Mitchell to testify.
Jon?
[INAUDIBLE]
All right.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
Thank you for joining us.
--come on now.
All right.
Thank you, Mr. Chairmen-- both chairmen-- for the opportunity
today.
My name is Jon Mitchell.
I'm the mayor of Bedford, and I'm here
to offer a few words of perspective
on the proposed reconfiguration of the 4th and 9th districts.
I hasten to begin by acknowledging the complexity
of what you have undertaken.
To the casual observer, redrawing
congressional districts can appear
to be akin to completing a jigsaw puzzle.
But with the statutory and constitutional overlay
that you have to deal with, along with all the push
and pull of a number of political interests,
it is no mean feat to put a map together.
And I salute your efforts toward that end,
and I applaud your comments, Mr. Chairman Moran, earlier.
And I agree with you.
The improvement from 2000 to 2010,
or the improvements that were worked by you and others
in 2010, were significant, and I certainly salute you for that.
I do have, as you might imagine, some differences
with what has been proposed.
I think 2010 was probably an anomaly from the perspective
of Greater New Bedford, in so far
as the push and pull of political constituencies
across Massachusetts in this decennial exercise
has worked decidedly against this region's interest.
And whether that's because of a lack of familiarity
with this region, or just the sheer weight
of political influence and wealth,
and other centers of power in Boston,
it has left New Bedford without direct congressional
representation for a long time.
In fact, it has been since 1922 that a New Bedford resident has
served in Congress, which, in our view,
has been an outright travesty.
I think there's an opportunity to fix that now.
And I think the emphasis I would emphasize--
that as we look at it, the need to maintain the continuity
of like interests is paramount.
The districts in Massachusetts are more compact than they once
were, and that's great.
But putting like interests in the same district is, I think,
key.
One thing-- and it has to [INAUDIBLE]..
It has to reflect the distinctiveness of the region.
You know, I've heard comments in the last few days
about New Bedford being a working-class community
or an immigrant community and such.
I think those definitions, those labels are slightly too narrow.
New Bedford is a city, period.
More specifically, it is a center city.
It is a city that has its own distinct suburbs.
It has its own distinct history--
from the rest of the state, that is.
And it's the center of a regional economy.
We're farther from Boston and Worcester,
Springfielg-- excuse me, Worcester, Springfield,
Providence, Manchester, and New Hampshire.
We are not oriented toward Boston.
We're oriented toward Buzzards Bay.
And to put a finer point on it, we're
in a separate USDA climate zone from Boston.
And we have different accents here.
This is a distinct place in the state.
And if Massachusetts, like many other states,
had its own independent redistricting commission,
you would probably draw a big box
around here or across southeastern Massachusetts
to reflect that distinctiveness.
As has been mentioned by earlier officials who've
testified before me, New Bedford's
the largest commercial fishing port in America.
It is the center of the maritime economy in this region,
and it has been that way for over 200 years.
And when it comes to our federal interests, a lot of it
centers around commercial fishing,
which is one of the most heavily regulated industries
by the federal government.
This is an industry that employs nearly--
when you combine it with--
excuse me, with fish processing, it
employs roughly 6,000 people in the region,
putting an awful lot of folks in Fall River, for starters,
but all throughout Eastern Massachusetts.
It's that significant of an economic engine.
There's a lot at stake here.
And so I mentioned all that, because
those distinct interests have to be recognized in the way
that the districts are drawn.
New Bedford, as I mentioned, has gone almost 100 years
without a resident in Congress.
And with the other state's--
other true center cities, Worcester, Springfield, Lowell
have had direct congressional representation over that time,
and they have it today.
We haven't had that, and it's been much to our detriment.
This is a metropolitan area that is
decidedly lacking in federal facilities, for starters.
So we have a small federal building here.
We have the oldest operating customs house
in the United States built during the Jackson
administration.
We are lacking in the presence of NOAA
here, which is especially grating on a lot of us here
who fight for the interests of the fishing industry.
70% of Massachusetts's landings come
into the port of New Bedford, and yet, of the 400-plus,
no employees in Massachusetts fewer than 10
are situated here.
That has everything to do with congressional influence, where
federal employees are situated.
New Bedford [INAUDIBLE] the US code establishes four federal
divisions in the District of Massachusetts,
four places where federal courts shall sit--
Boston, Worcester, Springfield, and Bedford.
There's never been a federal courthouse built here,
and that's why we don't have any federal court sessions here,
even though it's on the books.
There are a whole host of other issues-- immigration, water,
and wastewater issues, under the Clean Water Act.
You name it.
There is something here that happens
and that requires the direct attention of a Congressman
or woman.
And the reality is that this part of the district
is not the center of gravity as it should be,
because of its distinctiveness.
So that's the perspective from New Bedford.
So why does that play out with the proposed map?
I think there were two problems with the proposed map.
One is, it continues to cut out two of our suburbs--
Freetown and Lakeville.
Freetown is a contiguous suburb of New Bedford.
It is directly-- it's just over the border from the city's
North End, right next to the [INAUDIBLE]
biggest industrial park in this region.
Freetown has long-standing, inextricable ties
to New Bedford.
It should be part of the same part of the 9th.
In addition, Lakeville, though not contiguous with the city,
is also a suburb of New Bedford.
The city owns some 3,000 acres of land in Lakeville,
and it's the source--
around the Lakeville plant complex,
and it is the source of the city's and many
of the surrounding towns' drinking water.
So those two are-- it seems to me, both of those towns
should be part of the 9th.
And then, secondly-- and this has been referred to repeatedly
before me--
is the matter of Fall River.
I agree Fall River should be united.
It's just united in the wrong district.
There are ample similarities between Fall River and New
Bedford.
That would be self-evident to folks
in this part of the state, and you've heard a number of them.
They're regional institutions, like UMass Dartmouth,
the regional transit system, the Chamber of Commerce now--
all institutions whose area of responsibility
covers the entirety of the Buzzards Bay coastline,
along with all the cities and towns, including
Fall River, that abuts the Rhode Island border.
But it goes beyond that.
It's the manufacturing bases in the two cities.
They are only 15 miles apart.
And then, of course, there's the similar ethnic composition,
which are distinct.
This is the center of Portuguese America,
in South End-- that is to say, southeastern Massachusetts.
And there's a commonality, a cultural commonality
of experience and outlook that makes
this entire region of southeastern Massachusetts
distinct from others.
There's nothing quite-- when it comes to Portuguese culture
and everything implied by it--
there's no-- not only nothing like it in Massachusetts.
There's nothing like it in the rest of the country.
There were a few other things to consider still on the matter.
You know, we're not here, I suspect--
and I'm not arguing that there is legal, constitutionally
cognizable concerns around the disposition of minority
populations, but that it is between these two districts.
That said, however, it is more than noteworthy that Fall River
in the 4th, all of it in the 4th, and New Bedford in the 9th
have, among all the municipalities
in those two districts, the highest minority populations.
The non-white population in New Bedford is 39%.
It's not nearly as high in Fall River, but it's high.
Fall River is higher than everyone else
in-- every other municipality in the 4th.
And if you look at the arrangement of the maps,
you have these two municipalities
with these high minority populations that
are at the tail end, the geographic tail ends of the two
districts.
I think there is reason for concern about that
alone, in terms of-- just re-emphasized, for good reason,
the creation of a minority-majority district
in the Boston area.
I think part of the same considerations
would apply to the way that these two
cities with significant minority populations
are oriented to the rest of their two proposed districts.
Let me just address quickly a couple
of ideas that were thrown out.
The two-for-one argument that we've
heard, that is something that decades of Supreme Court
jurisprudence has characterized as an empty argument, honestly.
It has been advanced by folks who, over the years,
and in other places, who've tried to defend the most
pernicious acts of gerrymandering, mostly
in the South.
And the reality is, two is not better than one.
Having a congressperson focused on the distinct interests,
federal interests of a congressional district,
is the optimal arrangement in order
to ensure that those interests are protected.
The other thing I'd just say is that the idea that somehow--
if you've grown up in southeastern Massachusetts,
you're well familiar with all the high school rivalries,
and it's one of the great things about living
in this part of the world.
Those rivalries are one way that lots of folks
are connected here.
But this concern that Fall River--
if Fall River were in the 9th district,
that it would be overshadowed by New Bedford, I think,
should cause people to step back and say, is that really--
and so is that really going to be
different in the 4th district?
Sure, Fall River's population would
be the highest of any municipality
in the 4th district.
Quite honestly, if you look at the differences in wealth
as between Fall River and Newton,
where the median household income is multiples higher,
where people are more likely to vote,
where there is a greater connection to media
and political circles in Boston--
that it's realistic to think that Fall River is
going to be the center of gravity in that district?
I don't think so.
I don't think anybody can really assert that credibly.
There is, however, a great deal more in common between Fall
River and New Bedford.
And my fear is that the removal of Fall River entirely
from the 9th district will dilute our ability to advance,
over here in Greater New Bedford, our federal interests,
which are very substantial.
Offshore wind, fishing, immigration, Clean Water Act
matters--
it runs the gamut.
And so I would urge the Committee
to reconsider its proposal, and to really focus hard
on running a district that really reflects like interests
in this region of the state, so that we at long last can
have a much louder say in the halls of Congress.
And with that, I'll wrap up.
But thank you again, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity.
Thank you, Mr. Mayor, for your testimony.
I would like to ask any of my colleagues on the committee
if they have any questions for the mayor.
Hearing none, we will move on.
Thank you, sir, for your testimony.
Thank you.
Next up on our list is the gentlelady from Somerset,
representative Pat Haddad.
Here we go.
So sorry.
Hey, Pat, how are you?
Good.
I think it's afternoon now.
Good afternoon.
I'm here to support the maps as presented by the Committee.
And I just want to just say right up front,
none of my remarks are meant to be personal.
However, I had prepared remarks, but as I'm
listening to other people, I've thrown them all out.
And I want to specifically address
some of the things that have been said.
So first and foremost, we have heard repeatedly
about communities of interest.
And I would submit to you that my district of Somerset
and Swansea are communities of interest that should
remain united with Fall River.
We have historically, economically--
you know, we have been Fall River suburbs forever.
And when we are looking for state services,
that's where we go.
When we're looking for things that tie us together,
we go to Fall River.
There's been a lot of talk about Bristol County,
so I would also submit that the geography of Bristol County
is centered in my district, in Dighton.
And the county seat is in the city of Taunton.
So the 4th district, as proposed by the Committee,
really unites more of Bristol County than the opposite--
you know, what other people are talking about.
I also want to talk about the Bristol Community College.
The fact has been brought up that we have campuses
in Fall River and New Bedford.
Well, we also have campuses in Attleboro and Taunton.
And if we're going to talk about offshore wind,
then with humility, I would say that the reason that we
have offshore wind is because I was one of the people who
worked so hard.
So if we're going to talk about the opportunities
for offshore wind, the largest tract
of land still available for any kind of development
is in Somerset.
So to take Fall River, where we are so inextricably
linked, away from Somerset and Swansea, really--
I just can't wrap my head around it.
And so I just want to--
it's interesting that the previous speaker talked
about suburbs that are distinct, and I
would submit that the suburbs of Somerset and Swansea
are very linked to Fall River.
And truth be told, most people who
live in Somerset and Swansea were actually
born in Fall River.
I was born and brought up in Fall River
and went to the high schools there.
And you save a little money, and you move across the river.
That doesn't break the bond.
And the bond between Fall River and its suburbs to the west,
I think, are deserving of just as much consideration
as have been given to suburbs of the great city of New Bedford.
So I want to join with my colleagues
in the Fall River area and say that when I accompanied you
10 years ago around the state, doing this,
there was a lot of talk about there being
two congressmen in Fall River.
And truly, I think it was because no one wanted
to insult either of the congressmen that had served
so well in that city.
But I much prefer what you have done,
what the Committee has done, and I want to thank you all.
Because in my very humble opinion,
the 4th district now contains very important pieces
of Bristol County, and I think it should remain that way.
And I do feel that Fall River will
become a center of gravity.
Very often, people rise to the level that they are given.
Given this opportunity, I think that Fall River will rise,
will rise to the occasion, will rise
to the opportunity to get out their people
and talk about voting.
And it's the same thing we do with kids.
You tell them they can be great, and they'll be great.
You tell them that they're a part of something,
and they're not quite there, then
they're going to believe you.
So I say, let's talk about the kids in Fall River,
in Somerset and Swansea, and into the 4th district,
and tell them how great they can be.
And so I thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I'm sorry I was kind of all over the place,
but I feel more strongly about this
than I have felt about a lot of things over my tenure of 20
years in the House.
So thank you for your consideration.
Thank you very much for seeing the value
of putting Fall River.
But I believe that we should keep the suburbs around Fall
River together as well.
Thank you, Pat, and we appreciate your testimony.
And you mentioned earlier the work that you've
done on offshore wind over your career
has been pretty impressive, and this does affect Fall River.
I believe that-- and New Bedford.
But that region is lucky to have you guys.
So--
Thank you.
Any members of the committee have any questions
for Representative Haddad?
Right.
Hearing none, we'll move on.
Thank you, Pat.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Representative Alan Silvia is next.
Representative Silvia.
Yes, Representative Silvia.
How are you?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Chairman
for the opportunity to come before you today.
I come before you with the combined interest
in promoting Fall River and New Bedford
in the same congressional district.
I represent just Fall River, the largest population of the city.
And in the center of my district is
a line, half being in the 9th half and the 4th.
And 20% of our population in this district
is at or below the poverty line.
It has the largest population of minorities.
And you know, when this became very evident
just a few weeks ago, it was like someone
found a hair in the soup.
We are usually on the same page here in the South
Coast with regard to issues.
However, I had to make it clear that we would benefit
by being part of one district--
Fall River in its entirety and New Bedford--
in the 9th congressional district, for all of those
reasons that you've heard.
Three months ago, when this wasn't on the hearts and minds
of so many here, I had a meeting with the Coalition
for Social Justice and many constituents.
I won't read off their names, but we
comprised a letter of 94 names.
I signed that document.
I don't believe it received the attention that it deserved.
But these are people who live in Fall River, people
who live in surrounding areas of our community and in the area.
And they were very clear on those issues that were already
mentioned either by Senator Rodrigues
or by Congressman Keating.
I would also say that because Fall River has been divided
in this way, that district that I mentioned,
the district that I represent, the 7th judicial district,
is often overlooked.
We're not given the attention that it deserves.
I do feel that by combining Fall River and New Bedford,
we'll give it that attention.
And as I said, I won't repeat what Senator Rodrigues said
or some of the others have mentioned
about how the communities are comprised
and how we reflect more in relationship with New Bedford
than with Newton or Wellesley or Brookline.
We have much in common.
For many years, we have been called the sister city,
Fall River and New Bedford.
That's not something new that happened
within the past short period of time.
It's been called the sister city since they
were harpooning whales.
So while we have those rivalries that so many other communities
have, with football and other sports,
we have much more in common.
And I want to thank you for listening today,
and I hope that this committee would reconsider
what they have planned.
Thank you.
Thank you, Representative.
Any questions for Representative Silvia?
OK, hearing none, we will move on to Rene Brown.
Rene Brown?
Hello?
Rene Brown?
That's me.
Hi, Rene, how are you?
I'm good.
What say you?
I'm Attorney Rene Brown.
I'm a business owner in Fall River.
I'm a homeowner in Fall River.
I try to stay on top of political matters
that affect the great city of Fall River.
I'm proud to say that I live in Fall River.
I think this is an eclectic city.
I certainly am not going to repeat
everything my wonderful elected officials have stated.
But I know that this Joint Committee on Redistricting
spent a lot of time on this.
And I like that Fall River will be the largest
city in this district.
I don't see anything negative for Fall River
coming out of this.
I mean, they spent six months--
hearings, testimony, testimony of residents and businesses,
business owners such as myself.
And as Representative Alan Silvia just mentioned,
there seems to be no good reason for Fall River
to be divided right down the middle.
We have a strong population.
We have great voices in Boston and in our Government Center
to advocate for this eclectic population
that Fall River owns.
And I would suggest that nothing bad and only good
can come out of the new mapping, and I'm
excited that Fall River is going to be Mass district 4, as well
as all the other elected officials that
represent my great city.
For those reasons, I want to commend the Committee
on the hard work, and I would suggest
that nothing bad and only good will come out of this.
Thank you for the opportunity.
Thank you, Rene.
Thank you for your testimony and taking the time out
of your day to do this.
Any of my colleagues have any questions?
Hearing none, we will move on to Laura Washington.
Laura Washington?
Hi.
Hey, Laura.
What say you?
Thank you for allowing me to speak today.
So as a lifelong resident of Fall River, and actually
someone who has an office in downtown Bedford
in the historic district, I want to say,
although they are very similar communities,
they are very unique in their own right.
And I work in the field of addiction medicine
and mental health.
And the needs in both the communities are very great.
With that being said, I believe it's imperative to the work
that I do, the work that we do in my field,
that we have our own representation, that New
Bedford has a strong representation,
and that Fall River has a strong representation.
I was excited when I've seen the new mapping, that we were
going to be able to have that.
And I really would like the Committee to really consider
keeping it as the 4th congressional district.
I think in the work that I do, it's extremely imperative
that we have representation of the largest
city in that district, the attention that we need,
and the attention that New Bedford will need for there.
So with that, thank you for listening to my testimony.
Thank you very much, Laura.
We appreciate your testimony.
And we'll move on.
I don't believe my committee has any questions for Laura.
So we'll move on to Hugh Dunn.
New Bedford city councilor, Hugh Dunn.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you
to the members of the redistricting
committee for your time today.
I have some comments both as a city councilor
and as a former director of a regional economic development
organization.
The South Coast really operates as its own unique functional
economic region.
I think South Coast Rail will help connect Fall River and New
Bedford to Greater Boston, but right now, we
have our own unique commuting patterns, employment trends.
And our media market is not shared with Boston.
Rather, our media market's closer to Rhode Island.
So that also means that the South Coast
needs its own unique strategies to drive its economy.
The South Coast has primarily been left out
of the Greater Boston innovation economy,
but we do have a shared strength between Fall River, New
Bedford, and the Cape, where you see the largest
cluster of marine science and technology companies
on the eastern seaboard.
So that's commercial fishing, offshore wind, undersea defense
contracting, boat building, aquaculture.
The region is really right in the sense.
You also have a cluster of educational institutions
that have footprints in Fall River and New Bedford--
UMass Dartmouth, Bristol Community College--
both playing in the space, both leaders in the space.
And then, on the Cape, you have Woods Hole and Mass Maritime.
So this region, if it works together,
can really, really go far.
If you look at regions and what's
required for successful economic development,
you need an alignment between education, industry,
and government.
So the key takeaway here is, if you shift Fall River and New
Bedford to different districts entirely,
it compromises that part where you need government unified.
And I've seen it working on different federal grant
applications utilizing both Congressman Keating's
office and Congressman Kennedy's office.
They did a tremendous job working together.
However, I do worry, if Fall River is completely
shifted into the 4th, it will become an afterthought.
Because Newton votes-- perhaps, 2 to 1, it outvotes Fall River.
And it's a smaller population, whereas New Bedford and Fall
River have more similar voting patterns.
So I think that if we want to ensure that there's not
a member of Congress from the South Coast, then shifting Fall
River would be leaning in that direction.
I would close by just saying that this region is really
at an important and critical time, where it's
at a crossroads, because with the Great Recession,
we were first in and last out.
And with what COVID has done to our economy,
we're going to need this unified approach, where both Fall River
and New Bedford are being led by a member who
represents both areas.
And again, as I mentioned, you have
so many important institutions.
You have our hospital system.
You have South Coast Rail that's going to work in both cities.
We have a shared demographic.
We have higher ed that crosses both cities.
So we have so much in common that, to completely sever us
would be taking a step back.
So I'd like to thank you, Mr. Chairman,
and I'd like to thank members of the Committee for your time
today.
Thank you, councilor.
We appreciate your testimony.
Any members of the Committee have any questions
for Councilor Dunn?
We're hearing none.
We will move to our next person.
Thanks, again, for your testimony, Councilor.
John Mitchell, Bristol County Commissioner.
John Mitchell.
Is he on?
Yeah, I'm here.
I didn't realize the mute was up.
So my name's John Mitchell.
I'm a county commissioner in Bristol.
I have been a past mayor of Fall River.
And I'm just testifying in favor of Fall River being
in the 4th congressional district entirely.
Right now, we have a suburban vote
in two districts with urban problems.
We've got a large public housing authority.
We have a lot of low-income housing, an increase
in minority population.
We have a waterfront.
We're looking at rail coming in.
So at this time, I do think it would
be best that the city have one congressional representative.
Again, with all due respect and credit to the--
well, in this case, gentlemen who
served those over the last 20 years,
I believe, and have done so effectively.
I go back-- I was mayor when Barney Frank was the sole
congressman, when we had a vote that was comparable
to Brookline and Newton--
certainly, a turnout that was comparable to them.
And it is, when you get to it, all about votes,
from congressional or any of us.
Where does this vote come from?
And in that case, we did have a population
that was larger than now in a good turnout.
And I think you'd see it again if it was one district.
So I think it would be best for the city.
I think having a sole congressman representing
the city and its considerable federal issues,
which would be unique in the district and not the same
as Newton or Brookline, the other big vote centers,
is certainly not like any suburban or rural area
in the district.
But I think one congressman would serve as well.
I think, certainly, Congressman Auchincloss,
who's only been on for two years,
has built a solid base in the city.
Barney Frank did that.
He was actually put in what was then
kind of an odd-shaped district in an effort
to defeat him in the early '80s, and it didn't work.
And he built a great base here and represented as well.
And I think that would happen again.
As far as concern about a representative from the South
Coast, I think if you looked-- and with all due respect
to Representative Auchincloss and the political aptitude he
showed two years ago--
I had someone run from the South Coast
in a race that included six northern district
candidates and not a single candidate from down here.
In the primary, I think, the candidate from down here
would have prevailed.
And I just think each election is unique,
and there's always an opportunity from someone,
a different area to be elected.
So I think in the right circumstances,
we'll have a South Coast congressional representative
at some point.
But I do support the city being made entire and kept
in the 4th district, and thank the Committee and its chairmen
for the hard work put into this, and the time
spent in coming up with what I think is well-regarded
and what should be an acceptable proposal.
Thank you.
Thank you, Commissioner, for your testimony.
Any members of the Committee have any questions?
OK, hearing none, we'll move on.
Thanks again, Commissioner.
Thank you.
A Fall River School Committee member, Thomas Khoury.
Committee member, are you there?
Perhaps on mute, committee member?
[INAUDIBLE] on mute.
You gotta hit unmute if you can see me.
Is Bernard McDonald ready to go?
All right.
While we're figuring out Tom's situation,
we're going to move on and go back to him.
Bernard McDonald, Fall River register of deeds,
is here to testify.
Bernard McDonald?
Hello.
Bernard, welcome.
Thank you, Rep Moran and Brownsberger.
I'll make it brief.
I just want to voice my support for your initial congressional
map, specifically keeping the entire city
of Fall River in the 4th District
and leaving New Bedford in the 9th district.
As a lifelong resident of Fall River and an elected official,
it's my belief that this well-thought-out plan
is best for Fall River and its surrounding communities.
I just-- I believe that having two congressmen advocating
for South Coast is better than having one.
So I thank you for the work that you folks have done,
and hopefully you will keep this map intact.
Thank you.
Thank you, Bernard.
We appreciate your testimony.
I don't believe any of my members of the committee
have any questions.
So we'll move on to the next person to testify.
Julie Ramos Gagliardi, it looks like.
Somerset Berkley Regional School Committee member.
Julie?
Good afternoon.
And thank you for the opportunity
to provide testimony with respect
to the proposed congressional map.
As first vice president for corporate giving
and community relations for BayCoast Bank,
a regional community bank with 18 branches across the South
Coast, I have the privilege of working with community leaders
throughout the region, and directing the bank support
to many non-profit and community organizations
from Fairhaven to New Bedford, from Fall River to Seekonk,
and into southern Rhode Island.
As gateway cities, Fall River and New Bedford
face many of the same issues.
And I saw firsthand how leaders from both communities
came together to share resources and ideas
to support residents across the region,
especially during the pandemic.
At the same time, it's very clear
that Fall River and New Bedford have different geographies,
different histories, strengths and cultural makeups.
We know that each municipality has
its own set of opportunities for growth
in arts and culture and future economic development,
with the advent of the offshore wind industry
and the construction of the South Coast Rail.
The 4th congressional district as proposed by the Committee
will establish Fall River as the largest city in the district
while maintaining separate representation for New Bedford.
And after listening to the testimony of hundreds
of our residents, it's clear that South Coast
will be best served by two strong voices in Washington
to advocate on the national level on behalf of the region,
working to address important issues
that are shared by both communities.
As a member of the Somerset Berkley Regional School
Committee, I recognize that the towns of Somerset and even
Swansea are closely tied to Fall River,
educationally and economically.
Fall River, together with Somerset's waterfront,
are well-positioned to play an important role
in the development of wind energy and the blue economy.
In addition to maximizing the representation and advocacy
for the South Coast region, it is equally as important
that we have a congressional representative
to take advantage of these exciting opportunities
and support the causes that are unique to the greater Fall
River area, which includes these neighboring towns.
For these reasons, I'm in favor of the proposed redistricting,
which places Fall River entirely in the 4th congressional
district.
In addition, I will note that BayCoast Bank President and CEO
Nicholas Christ will be providing
his own separate written testimony to support
this proposed district.
I want to thank you, Senator Brownsberger, Representative
Moran, and all the members of the Special Joint Redistricting
Committee for all your work on this important issue.
Thank you.
Thank you, Julie, for your testimony.
Appreciate it.
Many members of the Committee have any questions?
OK, hearing none, we want the next person to testify.
Kevin Costa.
Kevin?
Kevin, are you with us?
Kevin Costa?
OK, here I am, I believe.
We hear you, Kevin.
We hear you.
We don't see you, but we hear you.
Yeah, I just--
OK, hold on.
No, my video should be working, based
on-- let me try this again.
Just one sec.
Well, my video doesn't seem to be working, even though it's
supposedly unblocked now.
But then again-- and so I mean, my face is nothing to look at,
but I would have made it more visual as well,
just to try to use my expressions to make my point.
I was elected on the presidential primary ballot
to represent the first Bristol and Plymouth
district for the Democratic state committee, which is
Michael Rodrigues' district--
Fall River, Somerset, Swansea, Westport, Freetown, Lakeville,
and Rochester.
I've also taught economics to undergraduates,
and did my doctorate work in political science.
Three points I'd like to make about demographics, center
of gravity, and why we don't have unanimity
on this particular issue.
The demographics-- here's from the statistical analysis.
Let me get this here.
Statistical analysis-- just a comparison
of Newton and Fall River.
Now, Newton and Brookline are very, very, very similar.
Fall River and New Bedford--
you know, Siamese twins.
Six-figure incomes.
The percentage of households with incomes over $100,000--
In Newton, it's 59% of the population, in Fall River, 11%.
Median household income-- in Newton, $127,400;
Fall River, $36,800.
Percent of the population 25 years of age and older
without a high school diploma or equivalent--
Newton, 2.9%; Fall River, 27.9%.
Percent of population 25 years of age
and older with a bachelor's degree or higher--
Newton, 76.7%; Fall River, 14.4%.
And last but not least, very advanced degrees, percentage
of population 25 years of age and older
with a professional or doctoral degree--
MBA, PhD, MD.
Newton, 22.4%; Fall River, 1.2%.
And when it comes to Brookline, it's
almost exactly the same with Newton.
When it comes to New Bedford, almost exactly the same
with Fall River.
Now, so if those are the demographics, there are two--
I mean, Aristotle says, when you get such different material
circumstances, the very words don't have
the same meaning for people.
And we live in two different worlds.
Fall River and New Bedford live in one world,
and Newton and Brookline live in another.
Massachusetts is a superlative in many cases.
Educational attainment, income-- we're always first, second,
third in the country.
And yet, we're one of the highest in the country
as well for discrepancies between communities
when it comes to educational attainment and even income.
And when it comes--
so let's say, center of gravity.
We keep hearing that Fall River is a bigger community.
But here are statistics here.
Now, this is the presidential election,
the last presidential election in 2020.
Fall River, 31,030 people voted.
In Newton, 47,264.
That's a 16,234 difference.
Newton voted more than 152% of what we did.
And the reality is, when it comes to off-year elections,
the case is that the socioeconomic variables,
like income and education, are correlated
with a precipitous drop in turnout
during off-year elections when it is a presidential election.
So I remember a gubernatorial election a while back
when I looked at The Boston Globe--
Newton, which has a slightly smaller population--
still the case, only slightly smaller--
actually doubled those in the vote.
So when it comes to the center of gravity,
we know what it's going to be.
It's going to be Newton and Brookline.
And it's always been the case, pretty much
my entire adult life, like it's been
mentioned during this hearing.
Barney Frank was put into Fall River,
and then he was flipped around between Fall River and New
Bedford, cut up and sliced and diced.
But this was never his home.
Jim McGovern, who I supported strongly,
and contributed to his close victory over Peter
[INAUDIBLE]---- of course he centered in Worcester.
He's not going to move to Fall River,
because that's not his district.
I mean, it was his district in part.
But the reality now-- he's with Amherst, right?
The center of gravity was in Worcester, just
like the center of gravity is in Lowell,
and the center of gravity is in Springfield,
and the center of gravity is not in the South Coast.
The reality is, the only time that Fall River and New
Bedford are going to be in the center of a gravity
of a congressional district is if they
are both together in the same congressional district.
And to the extent--
and when they're both in two different districts,
that guarantees they'll be peripheral
to those two districts.
Now, I do sense that Fall River should be with Somerset
and Swansea as well.
And so that would be the ideal.
But the reality is--
now, you would say, why not unanimity?
Well, if this is really in the interest of Fall River, New
Bedford, and the greater region, why aren't they unanimous?
I would suspect it's because they've already
been divided in the past.
It's a structural reason.
People have made relationships with the present status quo,
from having been divided in the past.
And that very divide has been a divide-and-conquer,
the consequences of which are, yeah, people
have created different relationships,
even though we have a genuine community of interest.
I've worked in New Bedford and I have family in New Bedford,
even though I live in Fall River.
A job in New Bedford is a job in Fall River.
That makes the equivalent of--
I mean, it's a 10-minute on a 195 corridor, your way.
And so if we're going to have actual representation--
and there was some ethnic demographic reality.
And it corresponds the commuting patterns, you know.
And just economic-- for example, recently, in Congress
you had-- about the reconciliation bill,
about the SALT. You know, the state and local taxes
deduction, right?
I mean, that was about--
and it was a thing that-- it was an incredible debate
within the Democratic party.
Because there were some well-to-do people
in blue states in the northeast that say, no, we want a major--
you should be able to write off anything in your deduction
in the state taxes.
That way-- because we have a disproportionately wealthy
community, and therefore it's in our interest.
But the reality-- because we're the richest states in general.
But we're not part of the rich.
We're not part of that in this region.
Now, the negotiated agreement ended up being $80,000 tap.
I don't know how many people in Fall River and New Bedford
pay $80,000 in state taxes.
I mean, the thing is, I guarantee you,
the numbers in Brookline and Newton skyrocket.
It must be a multiple of a multiple
of a multiple of that number.
So when you can even actually do the economic analysis,
cold-hard analysis.
Now, I'm not saying people vote just
based on their purely economic interests, but it is a factor.
And Fall River and New Bedford have
been the industrial midwest of this country.
You know, there've been policies, trade policies
and economic policies by Republicans and Democrats,
nationally, that have pretty much sold out
the interests of the industrial working classes
in the industrial midwest, and to a large extent,
in the South Coast as well.
So I think Fall River should be with New Bedford, ideally
with Somerset and Swansea as well.
And Joe Kennedy--
I mean, of course the present congressman
from the 4th-- of course he's not going
to say I don't want Fall Fiver.
This is what the preliminary suggestion is,
that it be all in his district.
What is he going to say?
Oh, I don't want them in my district?
What, he thinks it might very well soon be.
Right?
He's not going to do that.
But Joe Kennedy-- not unlike a farewell address.
Like Eisenhower, with the military-industrial complex.
When a person's no longer running for office,
they can say what they really feel,
without any political aspirations
outside of trying to say a truth that they
might have had to hold back in the past
for political purposes.
And Joe Kennedy hit him on the head.
It makes sense.
And he's from Brookline, right?
Newton?
Fall River and New Bedford have to be put together.
Otherwise, we'll never have a congressman
where Fall River and New Bedford-- if a congressman is
a resident in New Bedford, he'll make
Fall River his main interest.
And if the congressperson is from [INAUDIBLE]
he has to make New Bedford his main interest,
as well as the rest of the district.
But if they're not in the same district,
both cities will remain peripheral.
But if they are in the same district,
we'll have a congressman who actually belongs to us
and has to be responsive and accountable to us.
So thank you for your time and your patience.
It's very, very much appreciated.
Thank you.
I appreciate your testimony, too, Kevin.
And I'm not really-- this isn't really a statement.
It's really just a statement that when
you're drawing congressional districts that
have 781,102 people in them, it is impossible.
It's not [INAUDIBLE].
It is impossible to find everybody
that has the same educational attainment,
same economic status, same family wealth.
It's just impossible.
So in every single one of these districts that we drew,
you're going to have somebody on some end of the spectrum
of the economic ladder and some on the other end
of the spectrum.
And I would also just say this.
If you did look at the educational attainment,
household income, and wealth, in towns like Hingham, Osterville,
Chatham, Nantucket, Truro, and Duxbury,
I think you might find the same sort of disparities
in communities.
And those would all those would be
in the 9th congressional district
if we were, in fact, to put Fall River in the 9th district.
So I appreciate your testimony, though.
I just felt like I needed to mention that.
Next up is Thomas Khoury.
We'll try again.
Fall River School Committee member--
Tom Khoury.
Thomas, are you there?
Did you [INAUDIBLE]?
Let's see.
There is?
Tom, are you there?
He's still muted.
Can you promote Chris Markey, to [INAUDIBLE]??
On mute.
Can you hear me now?
We got you.
We got you, Tom.
Oh, man.
I'm so sorry for that.
Thank you so much.
I'm in my vehicle.
We got you.
Welcome.
Well, thank you so much.
I'm school committeeman Tom Khoury
from the great city of Fall River.
And I have a statement here , Senator Moran.
As a family man, a retired educator, and currently
a member of the Fall River School Committee,
I am a lifelong resident of Fall River, and I love my city.
I never liked the gerrymandered split of Fall River
into two congressional districts into two congressmen.
It was never in our favor to have that.
In the proposal right now, Fall River
will emerge stronger to be under one district,
the 4th congressional district.
We are a gateway city, and our needs demand strong advocacy.
Fall River needs one strong voice, not two fractured voices
advocating in Washington.
We are a city on the rise.
I'm really proud of that.
There's so much growth and development happening right now
for the future.
And in this new plan, we will be the largest voter
bloc in the 4th district.
And I believe Representative Auchincloss has
a strong connection here, and I view this
as a necessary advantage for Fall River
as we petition for federal funding into the future.
Fall River has not fared as well as New Bedford
in the past in funding.
So the 4th district congressmember
will recognize Fall River as the largest voting
bloc in the 4th district.
And this will-- and its demands will
be met and provide a stronger and unified voice in the US
Congress.
And I believe, Senator Moran, that the arguments going on
in the legislature right now recognize that Fall River needs
a stronger unified voice.
And that's what I advocate for as well.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, school committee member.
We appreciate your time to testify, and glad you came on.
So any of my committee members have
any questions for the school committee member?
Hearing none.
Thanks, Tom.
Now you can get back to work or whatever you're doing.
Thank you so much.
No worries, no worries.
Next up, I think Representative Chris Markey wants to testify,
so we'll take him next.
Thank you.
Can you hear me, Mr. Chairman?
Yeah, we got you, Chris.
Thanks.
First, I've listened to everybody,
and I guess I'm Switzerland when it comes to this,
in the words of Mike Rodrigues.
I represent Dartmouth, which is in between Fall River and New
Bedford.
I do have a piece of New Bedford.
But I also look at it as somewhat of a historian,
although I'm maybe younger than Rodrigues
and some of the others.
There has been a long history of battles
between Fall River and New Bedford
that goes back to even the '70s when my father was
mayor of New Bedford.
But I do recall specifically a day
in 1997 after the municipal elections in which
Mayor Kalisz, and I believe it was a former colleague
of the House, Ed Lambert, met in Dartmouth,
to say that it's time to start to work together.
And I think, since that day, there
has been a definite atmosphere of cooperation between New
Bedford and Fall River.
And there has been--
it's spilled over into our business communities,
with the chambers merging together, having
one voice for down here, knowing the economic opportunities
from offshore wind and the blue economy.
But I do just want to say that I'm actually one
that would like the status quo.
I think it works.
I have had more conversations with Bill Keating about Fall
River, talking about the needs of Fall River,
just as much as in Dartmouth and in New Bedford.
And that's because New Bedford and Dartmouth,
their tentacles go out to the suburbs.
And having the two of them together,
with the same demographics that you've all heard about,
is really important.
I would just say this--
that they share the economic conditions.
They share the opportunities with South Coast Rail,
with offshore wind, with the blue economy.
They share the same things with education,
with the connect that connects UMass Dartmouth, Bristol
Community College, Cape Cod Community college, Mass
Maritime as well as others, but most of those
are in the 9th district.
And then finally, the health care
issues that are clearly relevant down
here because of the socioeconomic status--
the hospital system from Wareham to Fall River
is really based upon the nonprofit of South Coast
hospitals, which I think has done a phenomenal job even
during COVID and throughout, and has really
serviced the community in a way that it had not 25 years ago.
The opportunities are endless, I think, if we get back together.
And so we stayed together through this little change.
I know that there's a lot of people who say, oh, we
should unify Fall River.
I believe there are nine other communities that
are split within congressional districts,
one being even Raynham, which is in Bristol County,
and which I think could be altered
to a degree, which still keeps things compact and relevant
to the areas around them.
And again, I'm sure you've heard it throughout the day
and everything else-- is Lawrence and Lowell
are stuck together.
I think it does make sense to have at least a piece of Fall
River and a piece of New Bedford together, to make this happen.
We are two stronger voices when we are together.
And as far as the voting bloc, I couldn't--
I mean, I want to be real practical about it.
I don't know the numbers that are actually picked up
in the voting world when you look
at the south end of Fall River compared
to Brookline and Newton.
I think those numbers are overwhelming votes
and the percentage of voters who participate.
I'm not saying that that's a factor in the--
because it should go on population.
But it's a reality of it.
But I do want to say one other thing.
In most states, this is a system that is incredibly corrupt.
And this system, the way you have handled
both last term and this change has been something
that we should be very proud.
The fact that you're having this hearing now, you're
doing these things, and you're listening,
and the fact that even after the original maps came out
on the Senate side and even on the House side,
there were minor tweaks--
that is something that is really important for the people
to understand.
At least after today, everyone's getting a fair shake.
So thank you very much to Will and to Michael.
Thank you.
Thank you, Representative.
I think it's probably good to just share a couple of numbers
so people have them at this point in time.
Again, this is just a statement.
What we're looking at here is--
if we were to consider to put all of Fall River into the 9th,
it would be 38,283.
So this is really about 38,283 people
that are currently in Representative Auchincloss'
district, or the 4th.
And the people that are asking to have them with New Bedford
is 38,283.
What we did was, we added, in our proposed maps, 55,717.
So we put 55,717 people that used to be in the 9th,
and we put them with the 38,283 that were in the 4th.
And we put them all together in the 4th.
So I just wanted to give those numbers, so people have them
and they understand exactly what we're talking about.
But anyway, Representative, thank you for your testimony.
And seeing that there's no questions
from my fellow committee members,
I would like to bring up Ken Fiola next.
Ken Fiola.
Fiola, yeah.
Hello.
Ken, thank you.
Welcome.
You got me?
I got you.
We don't see you, but we hear your voice.
OK.
Thank you.
First off, I'd like to thank both Chair Moran
and Brownsberger for the opportunity
to discuss this most important issue today.
Clearly, this is an issue that has
been long in terms of the need to discuss
and the need to address the issue of having Fall River
having its own representative.
So I'm clearly here to speak in favor of the proposed map,
and also try to articulate some of the reasons
why I believe it's important that we remain separate
from New Bedford, but also working with New Bedford
to have two strong congressional voices from the South Coast.
So first off, let me say that this whole issue has
sort of caught us out of the blue, clearly.
But for this hearing now, there's
been really not a lot of public discussion on this issue.
It's not an issue that people from Fall River
are clamoring to do.
There's not, in my opinion, a big interest
in becoming part of the New Bedford congressional district.
There's been no discussion with the business community
about this proposed change other than what the Senator brought
out earlier last week.
The mayor sort of got caught off guard about this as well.
And a lot of people talk about commonality of interest,
but I think it speaks loud and clear that the South Coast
Chamber of Commerce, who represents both communities,
is silent on this issue.
I think it's also clear that Bristol Community
College is also silent.
UMass Dartmouth is silent.
One of our biggest employers both in Fall River and New
Bedford, the hospital group, is also silent as well.
And so here you have a number of constituencies
that are advocating for this position,
but in reality, you have other groups
that have remained silent.
And I think their silence is because they understand
how helpful two congressmen can be,
how helpful two congressmen can be
for BCC, for UMass Dartmouth, and for also the cities
themselves.
We're in a situation here where Fall River and New Bedford's
economies are very, very different.
New Bedford's economy is based upon fishing.
Fall River's economy is based upon health care manufacturing
and distribution.
Even though we're close in geographic proximity
to one another, the cities themselves
are very, very different.
And we work collaboratively with one another
when it's in our best interests, but we also
compete against each other.
For instance, you know, I've been doing economic development
for more than 30 years.
And when it comes time for grant allocations,
I think it's important to note that one congressman would
be put in a very difficult spot when you have both Fall River
and New Bedford applying for grants.
Because we both may be applying for grants,
for EDA, from SBA, from HUD, from the Department
of Treasury, from the Department of Education.
And you know, and I think everybody
that's part of this discussion understands, that there's
just so much political capital that
could be used in the advocacy and procurement of these grants
by a congressman.
So if you have one congressman, that congressman
is going to be in a position to choose
which one he is actually-- he or she would actually
be advocating for, fully knowing that advocacy for both
is probably not going to be realistic,
and there's going to be someone that's
going to be disappointed with the result.
Whereas if you have one congressman from Fall River
and one congressman from New Bedford,
each of those congressmen can advocate for their district's
desires and grant applications that may be
before the federal government.
And each of those congressmen can
extend their political capital in securing those grants
for their district, as opposed to having one choosing
between two communities as to who they are going to support.
Again, when I look at this, I look at it
from the point of view from an economic development spectrum.
And I can tell you that having half the city
split between congressman Auchincloss
and half split between Congressman Keating just
hasn't worked.
OK?
It hasn't worked for the past 10 years.
It's not going to work if we have one congressional seat
for Fall River and New Bedford.
Even the ethnicity of the cities are different.
We talk about commonality of interests.
Fall River's Portuguese community is primarily Azorean.
New Bedford's Portuguese community is primarily
Cape Verdean and continental.
And there may be some cross representation between the two
communities, and they may also all be Portuguese.
There's a difference between the Portuguese communities
even between the two cities.
There's even differences in food between the two cities.
And when you look at, overall, the statistics
for Fall River and New Bedford, 80.61% is white in Fall River.
63.5% is white in New Bedford.
Fall River has a Black population of 5.86%,
and New Bedford as a 7% Black population.
So the commonality of interest is not within the minority
community as much as it is with people
who are trying to promote amongst the Portuguese
community.
But at the end of the day, I think
everyone would agree that having two congressional voices
for the South Coast is certainly stronger than having
one community voice.
And then, when we look at how the area and how the region is
situated and positioning itself for offshore wind,
right now you have competing interests
that have applied for the next allocation through the state.
You have Vineyard Wind, and you have Mayflower Wind.
If you have one congressman, how is he or she
going to make a distinction as to which application they
support?
Whereas if you have two congressmen,
the congressman from New Bedford can support the Vineyard Wind
application that's primarily based out of New Bedford,
and the congressman from Fall River
can work to support the application
for Mayflower Wind, which has its headquarters here in Fall
River.
So when I look at this, and I step back,
and I try to look at this logically.
Aside from the work that your committee has
done in running the numbers and making sure
that there's enough representation
from a population standpoint, it just makes all the sense
in the world for Fall River and New Bedford
to have their own congressmen, to each have
their own congressmen, and have two strong voices
that can represent this area, that can work collaboratively,
that can build constituencies amongst their peers
in Washington, to advocate for projects
that have joint benefit.
But at the end of the day, we need
to hold somebody-- we need to a one person responsible.
And with Fall River being the largest district
in the 4th congressional district,
or the largest city within the 4th congressional district,
we know who we have to hold accountable.
And that would be the congressman
that represents the 4th.
This is not about positioning Fall River
for future political runs.
And I think there's a little bit of that going on here.
People are eyeing this as though,
I'm an elected official from the South Coast.
Maybe I can jump in a congressional seat.
I don't see it that way.
I try to look at it logically and look
at it from the perspective of what
strengthens the South Coast.
And again, not to be redundant, I'll leave you with this.
My opinion is that the South Coast is better served
with two distinct congressional voices that
will advocate for the needs of their representative
constituencies when called upon, but will also work together
to advocate for joint projects that
benefit the city and the regions which they represent.
So again, thank you very, very much for the time and effort
you put into this mapping process.
I'm hoping that it will stay as is.
And I'd just reiterate that this is not
being supported by the major players in this area,
the major educational institutions, the Chamber
of Commerce, North [INAUDIBLE],, South Coast Health, or UMass
Dartmouth, or anybody else.
So if they're not ahead of this curve,
then I think we really need to question,
why are we changing it, as opposed to leaving it
by itself.
So with that, I'll leave you, and thank you very much.
Thank you, Ken.
Some pretty decent points there.
I want to ask anybody on the Committee
if they have any questions for Ken.
OK, no questions again.
Next up is Ron Rosen.
Rusin?
Rusin.
Rusin?
Yes, that's-- thank you.
Thank you.
First, good morning and good afternoon.
Thank you for the opportunity.
My name is Ron Rusin.
I am the local owner of Re Max Right Choice in Fall River.
I own several properties.
I do a lot of building.
I am also a member of the Bristol County Economic
Development Corporation.
I also work regionally.
I'm part of Mass Association of Realtors,
so I do go across the whole state and am very involved.
I am in favor and support of the maps that were put out
for the 4th district.
For some of the reasons that Ken--
Ken just took away all my fire.
He said pretty much everything I was going to say.
But I believe we should be one district.
I would love to have one congressman.
I think we would be better off on our own.
We are smaller and seem to be overshadowed by New Bedford.
I'm going to give you a few examples.
I'm very involved.
I was president five times throughout,
Fall River Association of Realtors.
Fall River Association of Realtors
and New Bedford Association of Realtors
trying to get together for 20 years.
As of last year, the Fall River Association of Realtors
went to Plymouth, and New Bedford went on their own.
There's a lot-- there's a tough collaboration there.
It took us 25 years to get our Chamber of Commerce together.
I think this is either the first or second year we're finally
trying and getting going.
The collaboration hasn't been great.
I do want to collaborate with New Bedford more,
but I strongly feel that we have to be separate.
We want our own congressman if we can have them.
And that's the reason for me coming out here today.
And I want to thank you for this opportunity,
but I agree with most of Ken's points.
And not to go over them again, but they
will be the same points I would go over.
Thank you, Ron, very much for your testimony.
I appreciate you and your patience, waiting to get on.
Hearing no questions from my committee,
I will move on to the next person to testify,
Jordan Berg Powers.
Hello.
Jordan?
Yes.
Sorry about that.
My phone was ringing while I was--
Jordan, what say you?
I may be the only person testifying on the Governor's
Council redistricting today, so this
is a break from your Fall River, New Bedford updates.
So I'm going to-- thank you so much for your time.
My name's Jordan Berg Powers.
I'm Executive Director of Mass Alliance
and a part of the Drawing Democracy Coalition.
I am testifying today on behalf of the Governor's Council
redistricting.
So there is an opportunity, because
of the work that the Senate did in creating
majority-minority seats in the Senate,
for there to be a majority-minority district
for Governor's Council.
If you take D25, Boston, Revere, Winthrop; D26, Boston,
Cambridge, Chelsea, and Everett; D28, Boston,
Belmont, and Watertown; and D29, all of Boston; and D30, Boston,
I believe that you'd get there or get close
for the possibility.
And so this obviously would be something,
I think, to think about in terms of the Voting Rights Act
and the opportunity for having a person of--
people of color have more of a say in the Governor's Council
elections.
This is obviously important, as the recently great comments
by the Supreme Judicial Court President said,
that there are still lagging systematic racism
in the judicial process.
She urged that the judges continue
to do the important work of moving better on that.
Obviously, there's also been some problems
with the oversight of probation.
And the need for people of color to have
more of a concentrated say in oversight of those processes,
I think, is really important now more than ever.
I think that what's really exciting about Massachusetts
is the state House and state Senate has really
led in the last couple of years in thinking
about the way in which we're policing,
the way in which our judicial system should meet the values
that we have here in the state.
And I think that the Governor's Council
hasn't been up to the task in the same way as the House
and Senate.
This would help ensure a voices there to do just that.
So I would encourage you to think about that seat.
I know it would shake things up a little bit
and that can be difficult, but I do
think that there's an opportunity for people of color
to come together.
And because it skews with the Senate,
you've already done that work to give voice to people of color.
I think this gives it an important place
where we really haven't had the same sort of say.
And I know that as we've done more
to try to educate voters on this,
I think that there's an opportunity to really
have voters to get on it.
So I will let you back to the congressional hearing that
is happening.
I don't have anything else to say about that.
No, no, stay.
Please, stay.
[LAUGHTER]
I don't envy you having to be down to the exact right
number of people, which I think people don't realize,
for Congress.
I think you can have one person out per thing.
So that is unenviable, to say the least.
So good luck.
[LAUGHS]
All right, Jordan.
Thanks a lot.
Can you just run down those Senate districts again, so I--
Yes, absolutely.
D25-- so District 25, Boston, Revere, Winthrop; D25, Boston,
Cambridge, Chelsea, and Everett; D28, Boston, Belmont,
and Watertown, which is Senator Brownsberger's district;
D29, all of Boston; and then the D30, all of Boston.
And those are the new districts as
constituted by the [INAUDIBLE].
Thanks for pointing that out, and we'll give it a look.
OK, thank you so much for your time, and good luck
with the rest of the day.
All right.
Thanks a lot.
All right.
Now that Jordan has given us probably
our lone Governor's Council testimony, we'll go back
to-- next up is Joan Medeiros.
Joan Medeiros?
And then, after Joan, we're going
to call a panel consisting of Mass Vote Common
Cause and MIRA.
So if they are listening, they should
get ready to go after Joan Medeiros.
Sorry about that.
My name is Joan Medeiros.
I appreciate the opportunity to speak before your committee
this afternoon.
I'm a lifelong Fall River resident.
I work in Fall River.
I'm very active in our civic community.
And I think, most importantly, I'm one of the few people
to speak who actually lives in the South End of Fall River.
With that, I think it's very important
that the map stay as proposed for the 4th congressional
district.
Fall River had been represented by one congressperson
for many, many years.
It's probably-- I think somebody else reiterated
that it's probably been about 25 years since we've
been a split community.
And I think it's time to come back, for Fall River
to have one voice in Congress.
Each community, Fall River and New Bedford,
has its own unique needs, as has been voiced
by other people on this call.
And I think it would be better represented for each community
to have a dedicated member in Congress to advocate
for its needs.
Fall River has been part of this split district for many years,
as I noted, and I think that sometimes we
may lose opportunity in that situation.
So I've come to advocate for the 4th congressional map as
proposed.
Thank you very much.
Thank you, Joan.
Thank you very much.
Does any member of the Committee have any questions for Joan?
OK, hearing none.
We have our first panel of the day coming up now.
Alex from Mass Vote, Jeff from Common Cause, and Amy
from MIRA.
Welcome.
Hey, everyone.
Thanks so much for having our panel on today.
We really appreciate the time.
I'm going to kick things off, and then
hand it over to Alex and Amy.
So to jump into it, hi, everyone.
Good afternoon, Chair Moran, Chair Brownsberger,
honorable Committee members.
My name is Geoff Foster.
And I'm-- sorry.
And I'm the Executive Director at Common Cause Massachusetts.
I do want to start by quickly congratulating again
Chair Moran, Chair Brownsberger, and your staff
for conducting a very transparent and accessible
redistricting process.
Common Cause Massachusetts is proud to be a steering
committee member of the Drawing Democracy Coalition, which
is a coalition of statewide advocacy and civil rights
groups that include public policy
advocates, political scientists, mapping
experts, and community-based organizations,
with a shared goal of partnering with you
all to ensure that underrepresented communities
have the opportunity to elect candidates of their choice
who best reflect their needs and interests.
For many months, informed by our partners who live and work
in Fall River and New Bedford, the Drawing Democracy Coalition
and our partners have advocated for the new map
to make the city of Fall River whole,
and to unite its immigrant communities
with immigrant communities of New
Bedford in the 9th district.
The draft congressional map released last week
instead put all of Fall River in the 4th district
with wealthy suburbs of Boston, thus
limiting opportunities for immigrant, BIPOC,
and low-income voters in Fall River and New Bedford
to elect candidates of their choice.
When you look across the entire Commonwealth, gateway cities
that share issues and regional proximity
are kept in the same congressional districts.
Springfield and Holyoke, Lowell and Lawrence,
Methuen and Haverhill, Gardner and Fitchburg,
Everett and Chelsea, and more.
We respectfully ask this committee
to do the same for Fall River and New Bedford,
to keep them whole and unite them together
in congressional district 9.
It's very well-documented that Fall River and New
Bedford have so much in common.
The largest concentration of Portuguese-Americans
in the entire country, higher populations of people of color,
a shared vision for economic development
and pandemic recovery, original gateway city status,
and a long list of shared needs that most
other congressional district 4 communities
don't share or experience.
As our unity map shows, it is possible to create
a congressional district 9 that includes
both New Bedford and Fall River, uniting these two gateway
cities with so many shared interests in a way that doesn't
negatively impact the majority-minority 7th
congressional district to the north.
While you'll soon hear from many other local experts who
can speak directly to the benefit of keeping Fall River
and New Bedford together in congressional district 9,
I will conclude my remarks by saying this.
Voters should be choosing their politicians,
and politicians shouldn't be choosing their voters.
There's been a lot of coverage in the media over the last week
that has given a platform to the opinions of federal, state,
and local politicians.
That's why we're so appreciative of today's public hearing
and this committee's leadership, as it
will give a platform to the voices of everyday people
who've been working and organizing
to empower Fall River and New Bedford for the last decade.
And we'll continue again to the decade ahead of us.
With so much work to be done for Fall River and New Bedford
before Congress and the general court,
we hope that the voices of everyday people
will be heard loud and clear today,
as they best represent the communities of interest that
need to be kept together, and the overall will of the people.
Thanks again to the chairs, and I'll pass it over
to my colleagues at Mass Vote.
Hi, Geoff.
Thank you, Geoff.
Thank you, Chairman Brownsberger and Chair Moran
for holding this hearing today and all the hearings
throughout this process.
One of the things that I personally,
throughout this process, have really come to appreciate
is the truly small-D democratic nature
of redistricting, where you have people
coming together and really exchanging ideas and talking
about this.
And I think that's just really cool.
You know, I think that's really important,
because there's so much cynicism in politics right now,
and I think that's a really good thing where citizens
can engage and discuss ideas.
So I just wanted to say that, but also
obviously, Mass Vote is joining our partners
in the Drawing Democracy Coalition
in urging Fall River and New Bedford to be joined
in one congressional district.
A lot of the very specific points
that I had found through research
have already been mentioned multiple times today, so
a little bit ad hoc on the testimony here.
But one thing I really want to focus on
is this concept of political power.
And I think what exists right now
in the present 4th district, the proposed 4th district,
is Fall River is in danger of seriously lacking
in political power.
Communities like Brookline and Newton
and Wellesley are far wealthier, far more educated,
have far more resources.
And one thing we noticed in our research of the 2020 election--
in Fall River, 60% of voters turned out.
In Brookline, 75% of voters turned out.
In Newton, 81% of voters turned out.
And in Wellesley, 84% of voters turned out.
As somebody already mentioned earlier,
between Fall River and Newton, Fall River
actually has more people.
But more voters actually turned out in Newton
to vote in the last election.
You have more voters actually coming out,
and more voters actually making decisions.
So the people of Fall River have less
of a voice in the democratic process, which
is very, very frustrating.
And by unifying Fall River and New Bedford
to communities that are rich in immigration, that
are rich in historical ties, that
are rich in cultural and economic ties,
we really think they would be able to have
a powerful, powerful voice in Congress.
The last thing we want to see is, the members of Congress
ignore the needs of Fall River and New Bedford
in their own districts because they believe
they can win elections and succeed in Congress
without paying much attention to these cities.
There's this paradox.
A lot of the times, people say, if there
are two people representing us, we're
going to have greater representation.
Actually, what tends to happen is,
you get weaker representation, because you
don't need to pay as much attention to those communities
and win re-election.
By having one member of Congress that
is accountable to both Fall River and New Bedford,
we really think the interest of residents
there are going to be taken more into account than they
will in the present map.
That's really all I have to say.
Thank you, again, for considering our testimony,
and I'll pass it off to my colleague.
Amy, are you next?
Yes, hi.
Good afternoon.
Thanks also for the opportunity to testify today.
My name is Amy Grunder, and I'm the Director of State Policy
and Legislative Affairs at the Massachusetts Immigrant
and Refugee Advocacy Coalition, or MIRA.
We're also a member of the Drawing Democracy Coalition
Steering Committee.
And we, too, want to highlight our appreciation
to your committee, and especially the two chairs--
Chair Brownsberger and Chair Moran--
for this really, exceptionally transparent process
and for your ongoing responsiveness to community
concerns throughout.
As New England's largest coalition
representing immigrant constituents,
MIRA is deeply committed to amplifying
the voice and political power of immigrant communities
in our state.
And these communities are amply present in the cities
of both New Bedford and Fall River.
We applaud the Committee's proposed unification
of Fall River into a single congressional district.
However, we do urge you to reconsider
the placement of Fall River in CD4,
where the voting power of its richly
diverse immigrant communities of color
will be diluted by the votes of whiter and wealthier
communities to its north, such as Brighton and Newton,
which have little in common with Fall River.
Instead, we, too, support the unification
of Fall River and New Bedford into CD9
in order to amplify the voting power of these two
immigrant and working-class cities, neither of which
has sent a representative to Congress in 100 years,
as you said earlier, Chairman Moran.
Combining these two gateway cities in a single district
will create a powerful vehicle for both cities
to elect a representative of their choice to Congress.
We know that the interests of non-voting immigrants
frequently align with immigrants who can and do vote,
and we don't want our state to miss an opportunity
to create a district that will amplify the voices
and power of our Commonwealth to immigrant communities.
For this reason, we strongly urge
you to reconsider your proposed map
and to heed the voices of the community organizations
that have worked so hard to support the redistricting
process over the last six months,
going door to door to speak with residents of both cities.
Immigrant and minority communities
have spoken loud and clear about the need to unify New Bedford
and Fall River into a single district in order
to allow their voices to be heard in Washington.
We strongly urge this committee to prioritize these voices
over those of some of the other stakeholders you've
heard today.
Thank you so much for considering our testimony.
Thank you, Amy.
So just a couple of, I guess, questions I have.
I often hear the word, immigrant communities.
How do you define it?
Well, you know, I often hear the word,
"the" immigrant community, which I--
However you want to say it, how do you define it?
But I take issue with that, because I
think that what we have in our state
is one of the most diverse immigrant communities, if you
will, in the state.
And I know that there are--
I mean, I would define them to include both new immigrants
and immigrants who have settled here many, many years ago.
But I would not include people--
I guess I include naturalized immigrants who
can vote, for sure.
I just-- because I hear "immigrant communities,"
and I look at the numbers.
Fall River is 71% non-Hispanic white.
I mean, I don't know--
that's a census number, you know.
So I don't-- when people say, the immigrant communities
of New Bedford or Fall River, you know,
there are immigrant communities all over the state.
And I don't think they're especially--
at least, I've not seen a number or I
can't find a number that quantifies that for these two
areas as if it's like a known fact.
Because I can't find that fact anywhere.
So I appreciate-- obviously, you know my work around immigrants,
being the son of immigrants--
two immigrants.
But I just don't--
when I look at the numbers for Fall River in particular,
you know, I don't see an immigrant--
I don't see a thriving immigrant community there,
at least by the numbers.
So that's what I-- when you say, bringing these two
immigrant communities together, the numbers
I look at for Fall River are much different than the numbers
I see from New Bedford.
Now, in New Bedford, I can see in the numbers
that there could be an immigrant community that exists there.
Could be?
You know, New Bedford is-- certainly when you look
at their percent of Hispanic and their percent of-- but you
know, that's just--
I'm just curious how you define immigrant communities
and how you quantify it.
Because I just can't--
that's one thing.
With regard to them not having a member of Congress
in over 100 years, there are well over 250 to 300
cities and towns that can say the exact same thing.
So I mean, you know, I appreciate that statement,
and I've heard it a couple of times.
But you know, there are 351 cities and towns,
and there's well over 250 to 300,
that have never had a Congressman ever.
So that's one thing.
And lastly, again, I just want to reiterate.
When I hear about the wealthy towns in the 4th,
if we were to do what you've asked,
you then would put them with towns like Hingham, Chatham,
Nantucket, Duxbury, Osterville, and Truro, which I guarantee
you, if you look at the wealth in those towns,
it's going to mirror the exact same wealth you're talking
about in Brookline and Newton.
So you know, I just want to make those statements,
because I think it's important that people hear them.
And then, lastly, I would just say to you
that, of the nine congressional districts that we have,
the 9th and the 4th, the two that we're talking about,
are the whitest two of the nine districts.
The non-Hispanic white in those two congressional districts are
the highest, higher than Moulton's higher than
McGovern's, higher than Neal's, higher than Lynch's, higher
than Clark's, higher than Trahan's, obviously higher than
Pressley's.
You know, so we're talking about two
of the whitest congressional districts
that we have in the Commonwealth.
So again, I just wanted to--
I just wanted to make those statements that's not really
a question.
I just want to make those statements as a way
to kind of just give people an idea of what
we look at when we drew these districts
and why we did what we did.
So--
Can I respond?
Yeah, and I would like to respond as well, please.
Sure.
I just-- briefly, I think you said it yourself.
You talked about non-Hispanic white.
And what we consider the communities that
are immigrant communities are communities
of people who are foreign-born.
And that includes white immigrants,
includes Portuguese immigrants, Azorean immigrants, et cetera.
So I wanted to point that out.
And then, with regard to combining
Fall River with communities that you mentioned on the Cape,
we think that the combination-- that we also
have to realize that we're combining it with New Bedford.
And the two of them together are going to be fairly powerful.
And then, the last piece about that neither city
sending anyone to Washington in 100 years, you said that, too,
but you were referring to the larger region.
Thank you.
I said that?
Well, you mentioned, from the South, right?
You mentioned the whole area from below that line, right?
That basically has not had representation.
And that's honestly why we did this.
I think the one thing that really separates,
you know, Fall River and New Bedford
from the other districts, even though they're really
really white districts, the 4th and 9th,
I think the income is what really stands out to me.
The median income, the median household income
in Fall River and New Bedford is under $50,000.
And split up, Fall River in one district
and New Bedford in another, they're weaker.
They don't have as much of a voice in those districts.
But when you bring them together and they're one force, then
even if there aren't Truros or Duxburys or whatever
that make more money and are whiter,
the people of Fall River and New Bedford
are going to be able to work together and have a really
strong voice in this district.
I heard others mentioning, like, one city has
6% Black population, and the other 7%, so they're different.
That's absurd.
You know, I think when you look at the overall picture
of these cities, they've got strong immigrant populations.
They've got histories that tie back all the way
to the Industrial Revolution.
I think, throughout history, they've proven really similar,
and they stay that way now.
And again, for those reasons, I think they would really
benefit, and the people would really
benefit from being joined as one in Congress.
Yeah, no, I hear you.
I just also want to point out that we're
talking about 38,000 people.
So I mean, again, this is not a huge number
we're talking about here.
So if we were to put-- but anyways.
The wealthy suburbs of Brookline and Newton, you know, that--
I'm sorry, but those--
when I look at Chatham and I look at Duxbury and Hingham,
I don't see much difference, quite frankly, than that.
So but anyways, I just wanted some banter here,
since we haven't had any yet.
So--
Mr. Chairman.
Senator Brownsberger.
Just to join in the banter, I mean, let's not
leave out the working-class communities of Taunton
and Attleboro and North Attleboro and Milford.
You know, all these communities that, in fact,
are part of the 4th district--
I think we tend to sort of zero in on Newton and Brookline
to highlight the contrast, but they are less than 20%
of the district together.
And there's a lot of other communities
that are economically diverse and look a lot more like Fall
River in that district.
Thank you, Senator.
And thanks for the banter.
We're going to have to have some sort of discussion, right?
Listen, guys, thank you for your testimony.
I very much appreciate it.
And also, on a side note, thank you
for being involved in this process from day one.
Mass Vote, Common Cause, and MIRA
have been working with us all the way through this,
to, I think, hopefully give us a product in the end that we
can be proud of.
Maybe we not 100% agree on everything, but I think you--
I hope you know your voices have been listened to,
and they've been effective.
And I think you see that in the maps that we drew
and in the changes we've made in some of those maps.
So hearing no questions from any other committee
members, unless any--
oh, Geoff.
Oh, sorry, all right.
That was a bye.
We have-- we still have a long list of people here.
So next up is Mark Costa.
Mark Costa.
Again, thank you guys for your testimony.
There you are, Mark.
I see you.
What do you have to say, Mark?
Can you hear me?
Yeah, I got you.
Good afternoon, Chairman Brownsberger, Chairman Moran,
and members of the Joint Committee.
Thank you for this opportunity to be heard
on such an important topic.
My name is Mark Costa.
I'm the Vice Chairman of the Fall River School Committee,
and have been serving this community for almost 16 years.
I think it's fair to say I know my city.
And more importantly, I know my constituents.
We're a diverse community of hardworking blue-collar
workers, and we face unique challenges.
The proposed redistricting map will
allow for two congressional voices
to be heard when there are issues that are shared
within the South Coast region.
But it also affords Fall River the representation that
is essential to specific needs that we have such as education,
infrastructure, emerging technologies,
and the development of our waterfront.
And for the first time in 20 years, through your diligence,
with 20 public hearings, testimony by hundreds
of people, Fall River will have the opportunity
to be the largest city in the 4th congressional district.
This esteemed committee did their work.
You listened.
And more importantly, you got it right
for the people of Fall River.
I respectfully ask you not waver in your decision,
and I also ask that you advance the proposed
congressional district map as it is.
And I want to thank you all for your time
with this important proposal that's being put forth.
It does mean an awful lot to the city
of Fall River and its people.
And I think for once, we'll have great representation here now,
and I'm sure with these changes, we'll
continue to have it in years to come.
So thank you to the Committee, and thank you
to both chairpersons.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mark.
I appreciate your testimony.
Any questions from the Committee?
Hearing none, we will move on to the next person
to testify, who is Joe Pereira.
Joe Pereira?
Oh, there you are, Joe.
I can see you.
I have sound.
There we go.
Sorry about that.
Good afternoon.
My thanks to the co-chairs of this Joint Committee
for taking of your time today to listen
to all the various opinions and points
that the citizens have to make.
This is democracy.
This is one of the beautiful things about being here,
and one of the beautiful things that
attracted so many immigrant families to be here.
Fall River belongs as a unified city,
as far as its representation.
So to that end, that was a tremendous step
forward on behalf of your committee,
and I thank you for it.
I do believe, as many have said before,
and maybe Ken Fiola said it the best,
we end up in a level of competition with New Bedford.
It can't be helped.
There are similar workforces.
There are similarities between the two cities.
And having one representative in Congress
doesn't seem to work in our best interests.
I think we're far better off with Fall River in the 4th, New
Bedford in the 9th.
Offshore wind has been brought up a number of times in this.
The two cities, although both seaports,
are very differently equipped for what they can do
or how they can provide services to offshore wind.
New Bedford has far more laydown area along its
along its waterfront.
Much easier for them to stack up the vanes, the shafts,
the cells that have to be stacked on to ships
and sent out, where Fall River is very well set
to work with Mayflower as a maintenance facility and as,
basically, a depoting facility for that effort.
That's just one example.
Fall River is thriving right now.
There are many great things going on in Fall River.
I had the pleasure-- although I'm not an elected official,
I do serve the city on the Zoning Board of Appeals.
We have some great applications come
before us each and every month that
are helping us to revitalize downtown, revitalize industry
and business coming into the city.
And I'm very proud of what I've seen
that is coming in through our portal
as well as the planning board, et cetera.
We're making our way, and we are different than New Bedford.
Let us have the two voices.
Please keep the district as you have
drawn it, the redistricting.
And give us two voices in Congress.
I plead with you at this point.
It's the right way to go.
I've lived in Bristol County all my life--
26 years as a homeowner here in Fall River, and very
invested in the city.
And again, thank you for your work.
And please, leave this redistricting map as it is.
Thank you again.
Thank you, Joe.
Thank you for your testimony.
And I don't see any questions from members of the Committee,
but I did have one member who asked
for a point of personal privilege.
And I'm more than happy to grant it to him.
the ranking member of this committee, Representative Paul
Frost, would like to say something.
Paul.
Thank you.
And thank you to the members of this committee.
I just wanted to switch gears a little bit off
of Fall River and New Bedford, and just take a quick look
and ask the Committee to kind of relook at some things
here with the 1st and 2nd congressional districts
being in Central Massachusetts, being in Worcester County.
And I'm looking at the proposed maps.
And I can't help but notice and look
and say that I do believe there are opportunities here,
where I think more of communities that are in Western
Mass that are now being--
were and are now being proposed to be
in the 2nd congressional district, which
is Worcester-based, to be put back
or be put with a Springfield-based Western Mass
district, especially those along say that I-91 area.
And more towns that are actually in Worcester County and Central
Massachusetts that are being proposed
to be in the Springfield-based 1st district,
could be put back in a Worcester-based district.
When you look at the map, you see, especially
along the southern side, that--
and that's the area I represent.
And though Auburn and Middlebury, which I represent,
will stay in the 2nd congressional district
as these maps are proposed, and be with Worcester,
as they abut Worcester and they should
be with Worcester in that regard, towns that are
just a little further south--
or two that are one town away--
are going to be put in a Springfield-based district.
And I look, for example, at the town of Oxford.
And the town of Oxford is only two towns away
from the city of Worcester, actually.
It's only Auburn, so it's Auburn and then Worcester.
They share the 395 stretch in Massachusetts
between the Connecticut line and in Auburn
before it turns into 290, and then goes into Worcester.
That stretch right there is important
to the southern Worcester County corridor.
And for some reason, you know, Oxford
is put in with Springfield.
But Auburn in most of Webster, a town
that's just south of Oxford on 395,
will be staying with Congressman McGovern,
will be staying in the 2nd congressional district.
And these towns that I'm looking at being put with Springfield
right now are Worcester suburban communities.
They're suburbs of Worcester.
Many people work in Worcester.
Many people go to Worcester for many, many things.
Their news outlets are generally from Worcester.
And I just don't--
I just believe that there's that opportunity
to keep those communities in the 2nd congressional district.
And at the same time, we see this sort of push
from the 2nd district going up over the Quabbin
and then going up towards the Berkshires along the Vermont
border as probably not necessary.
Those could probably stay--
especially those along Route I-91 and west of that--
could stay with Springfield, and then let the Central Mass
communities, let the Worcester County communities
specifically-- and towns that are just right
next to the city of Worcester.
I mean, maybe there's one town in between them.
But right next to the city of Worcester,
like in Oxford, like in Charlton,
that could stay in the 2nd congressional district,
where they have a lot more in common
and have a lot more at stake.
Whatever happens in Worcester has more of an impact on them
than what happens in Springfield or the general area
around Springfield.
And I appreciate the comments about--
kind of referencing back to this issue between the South
Coast there and whether having one or two congressmen.
I would say, at least as far as Central Mass or Worcester
County goes, I'm not sure that model would work there--
works here.
I've been around for a long while,
and I've seen it where Worcester County was cut up before.
And I think the great work of this Committee--
though I had, again, some issues back then,
but they were much more minor, compared to years before.
But 10 years ago, the Committee did a much better job of,
I think, formulating our congressional districts
in a more regional sense.
And I'm just afraid that this is now
starting a pattern of going back the other way, where
it's making a little bit less regional sense.
And I mean, it's just shifting the population, I get it.
But you could kind of keep towns in Western Mass,
the Western Mass district towns in Central Mass in Central
Mass, or Worcester County towns in a Worcester
County-based district.
That could still possibly-- well, it can still work.
Maybe not 100%, but it can still work.
And I think that what that really does
is, it gives people, I think, more of a voice
to follow the individual who actually is, again,
just down the street from them, as opposed
to following an individual who is 40, 50 miles away.
And you know, there's not a lot of regional similarities
that can kind of justify that.
So I think that there's an opportunity here.
I would like the Committee to kind of take another look at it
and see what they could do.
But like I said, even if I break it down to just my district,
you know, I look at the town of Oxford and you look on the map.
You know, Auburn to its north is with
the Worcester-based district.
Webster is, like, 3/4 or so with the Worcester-based district.
And that 395 stretch, it goes right down,
goes right through Oxford for some reason.
And that's [INAUDIBLE] if the population works [INAUDIBLE]
everything.
But Oxford has been put into the Springfield-based district,
and I would make the same argument for Charlton as well.
You know, Leicester to its north is
in the Worcester-based district.
But you know, Charlton is right on the route 20
belt, which goes right through Worcester and everything
as well.
And I, again, think there's a lot more economic, social,
and a whole bunch of other things that
are far more relevant for those communities
to be in a Worcester-based, Worcester County-based district
than a Western Mass, specifically
Springfield-based district.
So I just wanted to add that and just
ask the Committee to take a look at that,
and see if there's anything they could do either
on a small scale or a bigger scale.
So thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Paul.
And thank you for all your work in this Committee.
Much appreciated.
We will certainly take a look at that.
Next up is Joe Constancia.
Joe Constancia?
Not seeing him.
Hello?
Welcome, Joe.
Good morning.
Good morning, good afternoon.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for letting me speak.
I grew up in Fall River.
I've been in residence since--
well, I came here in 1968.
I was three years old.
I came from Portugal.
I lived all my life in Fall River.
Last 4 and 1/2 years, I moved to Dighton, Mass.
My current occupation is, I'm a business manager
for the Laborers Local 610, Fall River, Mass,
which is part of LIUNA, Laborers' International
Union of North America.
And I don't think there's anything wrong with having
two congressmen represent, but I do
believe it might be time for us to be our own district
with district 4.
And I believe it will be better to concentrate more
on one congressman.
We'll be the largest city to vote.
For the lack of better words, instead
of being on the back-burner, I believe
we'll be up in the front.
I deal with Somerset, Swansea, Assonet, Fall River, Somerset.
I deal with Seekonk.
That's the cities and towns I represent, work-wise.
I do believe Congressman Jack Auchincloss has
a good presence.
I met him a few times.
He's been known to be seen.
I believe he values the same values that we do.
So in my opinion, I hope you take it into consideration
that I think it would be a good idea for Fall River
to be in district 4.
I think the city is moving forward
with economic development.
We've got the railroad tracks.
We got a wind farm.
Hopefully, that's moving forward with New Bedford.
But like I said, once again, I do
believe it will be a good choice for Fall River
to be district 4.
I represent just about 600 members, about 240 retirees
and about 400 active members.
I've been elected twice to my position,
so I'm going to guess that my members are pretty
happy with my progress and the decisions I made,
right or wrong, for my members.
So I hope you take into consideration keeping the city
of Fall River in district 4.
I want to thank everybody on the panel for giving me
time to speak.
That's all I have.
Thank you very much.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you, Joe.
Thank you, thank you.
And we appreciate what you do, working
with men and women of labor.
Always important to us.
So all right.
So next up on the list, we're going
to have a panel after this person here.
We have a panel of four or five that
are coming up with Drawing Democracy, Immigrant
Assistance, and United Interfaith.
That panel will be up next.
But right before that panel, we got Michael Lund.
Michael Lund.
[INAUDIBLE]
All right.
We're having a little issue getting Michael in.
Just deal with us for a minute.
Mike, I can see up there.
[INAUDIBLE]
Mike, you're unmuted, so we can hear you, Mike.
Are you there?
Should we move onto--
All-righty.
We will move on to the panel that we have next.
And then, I believe, after this panel,
former Congressman Joe Kennedy may join us.
So let's get the panel that consists of Dax Crocker, Helena
DaSilva Hughes, Andrea Sheppard, Renee Ledbetter, Shane Burgo.
Who did you call first, Chairman?
We have Dax Crocker, Helena DaSilva Hughes,
Andrea Sheppard, Renee Ledbetter, And those are the.
I was told that that's the panel that's coming up next.
Is that right?
That is correct.
Chairman Moran, this is Dax Crocker.
We've been in this work for the last couple of months, three
months, working on New Bedford, Fall River, and the State House
districts in New Bedford, and now the congressional district
here in CD4, CD9.
I have a couple of things I want to say,
but I also want to ask you a couple of things.
And I know we haven't had much of a conversation
in this hearing, so maybe we could have
a little bit of a conversation.
So first, let's go through the facts.
Fact number one, the South Coast does share a culture.
Now, there are differences between Fall River and New
Bedford, or Swansea and Westport.
True.
But overall, even when you go to Craigslist,
you don't find Fall River and New Bedford.
You find South Coast.
Even Craigslist recognizes that this
is an area that has commonality-- commonality
of interests, commonality of culture,
commonality of history.
And I think that I'm sad today, Representative Moran,
Representative Brownsberger, and the Committee.
I'm very sad.
I'm very sad, because it seems like the political class is
the one that can't pull it together here
in the South Coast.
The Chamber of Commerce was able to pull it together.
They united.
Because they recognized that by themselves,
they can't accomplish as much.
The health care system united.
There is no separate Fall River and New Bedford.
The health care system recognized
that separate was not ideal.
The ideal was to be together.
They created the South Coast Health Care System here.
UMass Dartmouth recognized, as Shane Burgo
will point out when he speaks.
They united two schools that formerly were one from Fall
River and one from New Bedford.
They created the University of Massachusetts
in Dartmouth to unite the schools.
So it's the political class that is left unwilling to unite.
That's what I'm hearing in this hearing.
It's not that we can't come together.
It's that we don't want to come together.
There are a number of Fall River elected officials
who do not want to join with the politicians in the other areas
of the district.
There are politicians in Fall River
who don't want to be united with their colleagues
in New Bedford or other areas to present a common front when
asking for resources from the federal congressional districts
to come to this area.
So that's the second fact.
Political class hasn't been able to pull it together,
to our detriment as residents of the South Coast,
even though our business class, education, and health care
have been able to pull it together and unite.
Another fact.
Portuguese people do live from, I
would say, as far as Seekonk to Swansea,
in Fall River, Westport, Dartmouth, New Bedford.
Anything in between Seekonk through, I would say,
even a little bit of Fairhaven--
a lot of Portuguese people live there.
And to point out that those in the Fall River area
are from one side of Portugal, the islands, and the other part
of the Portuguese community are from the mainland,
and that that is the reason why they're not
a community of interest-- that is unbecoming
to try to separate them, and to create division
in the Portuguese community.
That is the same as if people trying to create the Brockton
senate district were to say, well, not all Black people
are Black and not a community of interest,
because some are Haitians, some are from Brazil,
some are African-Americans.
No, they are a community of interest.
Of course they are.
There's a lot more that unites them
than the little differences that separate them.
The South Coast is a Portuguese community.
And I suspect that many Brazilians, friends of mine
that I know, have come to this area because of the language,
because Portuguese people already live here
and they are now business owners.
Brazilians come here.
Cape Verdeans have been here.
So it is a community of interest that
is being separated-- that has been separated.
You're not separating it.
At the congressional level, they have
been separated for a long time.
You're trying to unite it, and I appreciate your effort,
Representative Moran and Senator Brownsberger,
for uniting Fall River.
I applaud you for it.
Good job.
I know it's not easy.
What's another fact?
Yesterday, in The Boston Globe, you Representative Moran
and Congressman Keating, were quoted--
one, Representative Congressman Keating as saying,
I'm not going to be here long.
You know, he's already announcing
he's not going to be here for a long time,
and that he wants all of the South Coast,
so that they have a chance when he's not around,
whether he retires or he moves on
to something greater than CD9.
He wants to leave behind a united
community that could potentially run a candidate to replace him.
He said that yesterday.
That's a fact.
To try to create a powerhouse that can replace Representative
Auchincloss, I think it's not what we would like to do.
He's a young politician, a freshman.
He's starting his career.
Why create a powerhouse in CD4 that can potentially run
a candidate to boot him out?
Why not create that, Representative Moran
and Senator Brownsberger, in CD9,
by bringing Swansea and Fall River together
to all the other towns with New Bedford?
I think it's cruel and sad and unbecoming that knowing--
politicians and people from this area,
knowing that there is an open seat coming up
in CD9, that they, that we, are not willing--
not that we can't.
It's that we don't want to say to a Portuguese politician,
to a member of our South Coast political class,
hey, why don't we all come together,
so that when that seat opens up, we
have the entire community behind you?
Why not?
Because of political egos.
Because we just don't want to be with those folks over there.
I think it's wrong.
I think it's to the detriment of the community.
I think it sends a signal to the high school kids,
especially the Portuguese youngsters of our area.
We are sending a signal that they cannot dream
of representing us, because we are not willing to give them
their entire community behind them.
So why not move Fall River and west of Fall River suburbs
to CD9?
Why not come together?
So the other the thing I want to say
is, Fall River by itself, as has been stated already
by other people, will not have the leverage
that it needs against the affluent towns
in the north of CD4.
And I agree with you, Representative Moran.
This is not just about Brookline and Newton.
In CD9, there are also a number of rich towns.
And so I think that most the democratic thing
that we can do--
and this is the basis upon which our government is built--
is that you pin one powerful group
on those against another powerful group
so we don't have a team.
That is the essence of democracy.
If you live in Fall River, Somerset,
in Swansea, which are the Portuguese areas of the CD4,
maybe a little bit more of Taunton, by themselves,
without the other half of their Portuguese, Brazilian, Cape
Verdean community in Westport, Dartmouth, and New Bedford,
they won't have the power that the Constitution
asks of everything that we do to keep our democracy.
People from the wealthy towns of CD4--
and I went through the census.
More than half of the towns in CD4
are people with money, people with more than a high school
education.
You need to create a group-- with my opinion respectfully
to you, Representative Moran and Senator Brownsberger,
and the Committee.
We must create such a power among working-class immigrants,
people of color, whether it's CD4 or CD9, that
can counter the political and money power,
that the rich towns either in CD4 or CD9 have.
Otherwise, we won't be able to stand up and have
the full attention of either one or two representatives.
Doesn't matter if it's one or two.
You can give us four representatives.
If we're not united, we won't have that power.
That's why everything that we do in this country
is to prevent one person or one group of people who have
more power than other people.
That's why we have antitrust laws.
But we don't want people to have so much power
than even if we are-- a lot of people,
if we don't have the money, then we are on the losing end.
You can ask that to South Africa.
Most people were of one race, and the minority
were of the other race.
But the minority had the political
and the money-- the political power and the money.
We don't want to leave our relatives and friends divided
into two districts.
Put us together.
Create checks and balances.
Whether it's CD4 or CD9, the South Coast belongs together.
Now, it's easier if you go with the argument
that people from the Cape are putting together,
that this is a coastal towns congressional district.
Because we live off the water.
In one way or another, we live off the water.
But if you put us all together, from Swansea, Somerset, Fall
River, Dartmouth, Westport, New Bedford, Fairhaven,
that is a powerhouse that can counter
the political and financial power of people in the Cape
and people in the South Shore.
That will send a signal to one of our members of the political
class that when the soon-to-be-open congressional
opposition is available, we can all cheer for the same person
in the South Coast.
Whether we win or not, it doesn't matter.
What matters is that we can send a signal that the South
Coast is back, that the South Coast is together,
and that one of our sons, one of our daughters,
can run for office and legitimately have a chance.
So Representative Moran, I guess I would ask you
if you would like to comment whether moving all of the South
Coast into one of the two districts is a possibility.
I know that the Drawing Democracy Coalition,
the coalition I am a member of, and politicians from the Cape
have submitted two separate maps to you, in which CD7
and CD8 are not messed with.
It's just a swap of towns between CD9 and CD4,
so that all of the South Coast is together in one district.
And I implore--
I want to end with this.
I implore the political class to follow
the example of the Chamber of Commerce, of the business
class.
Follow the example of the health care system.
Follow the example of the educational system.
That they haven't said anything, either in favor or against CD4
or CD9, doesn't mean that they are in favor of living forever
by itself in CD4.
When my siblings and I had disagreements and we fought,
our parents used to keep silent.
And we used to say, say something.
You have to be on my side.
Their silence didn't mean that they were
in favor of one or the other.
Many times, their silence meant, you guys
can just put it together.
And you, your siblings, your family, and you're
always fighting.
That is what silence meant in my home.
And I suspect that the silence of the business community,
the medical community, the educational community
means that it's up to the politicians
if they want to put it together or not, to the detriment
of our community.
Thank you.
Thank you, Dax.
Next, I believe, is Helena DaSilva Hughes.
Is she on?
Mr. Chairman, may I just ask a point of order?
Oh, sure.
I couldn't-- it would be helpful.
I don't have a relationship with all the individuals.
It'd be helpful if people could identify where they're from.
I think that would be helpful to our discussion
if people are willing to.
Obviously, if they're not, it's fine.
But that would be helpful, as members who
aren't from the South Coast.
Thank you.
All righty.
I am Dax Crocker with the Coalition for Social Justice
in Fall River and New Bedford.
OK.
Next is Helena DaSilva Hughes.
Yes, good afternoon.
And thank you for giving me-- allowing me to testify.
So my name is Helena DaSilva Hughes.
I'm the president of the Immigrants Assistance Center,
and we serve clients in both New Bedford in Fall River.
New Bedford and Fall River communities
face the same health disparities such as, both cities
are above state average for cancer and chronic diseases.
Both cities have high shares of low-income residents,
and lower levels of educational attainment,
compared to the state.
New Bedford and Fall River are similar
in cultural backgrounds.
Both cities have the largest Portuguese community
in the United States.
New Bedford and Fall River would be best served
by being included in a single congressional district that
would allow them to speak with one voice that
would represent the same concerns
and the same common interests.
Our immigrant population have been underrepresented
politically for decades, which in turn have greatly
impacted their income levels, their health
disparities, crime, and lower educational attainment.
These barriers have made it impossible
for them to make a livable income
to support their families.
Our voice gets constantly ignored
by the affluent and powerful communities
that dominate the 4th and 9th congressional districts.
Sorry, English is not my first language.
During this pandemic, both cities
were hardest hit with COVID cases,
and in turn, were last in receiving vaccines.
Even though our immigrant communities
were frontline workers and essential workers,
it still did not matter, because our voice did not
have the political power to be heard.
We have an opportunity to correct
the political disparities that our city has
faced in the past decade.
It's time that we have a political voice that represents
our immigrant communities.
Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to testify.
Thank you, Helena, for your testimony.
Andrea Sheppard.
Yes, I would like to speak, but I would also
like to ask if Renee Ledbetter could go before me, because she
has a meeting for work.
Sure, [INAUDIBLE].
Would that be possible?
No worries, no worries.
Renee, can you go next, if you don't mind?
Hi.
Thank you, Andrea.
Thank you, Representative Moran.
So I just have to say this, Mr. Chair.
Unfortunately, numbers, the census numbers
do not really tell the true story
of where we're at, because not everyone fills out the census.
So I just wanted to put that out there.
Good afternoon to all of the redistricting committee.
My name is Renee Ledbetter.
I'm the president of the Board of the United Interfaith
Action of Southeastern Mass, which covers
New Bedford and Fall River.
I am also the Vice President of the NAACP, New Bedford branch,
and I am also the Director of the New Bedford Shannon Youth
Outreach Program.
I'm here today to speak in support
of reuniting Fall River into a congressional district with New
Bedford in the South Coast.
As others have shared in their testimonies, when
you take wealthy, politically powerful suburbs of Boston,
and combine them into a congressional district
with a major urban gateway city such as Fall River,
the differences in interests and needs are obvious.
Housing instability, food insecurity,
educational attainment, economic challenges, youth violence,
and opioid crisis are common struggles among our communities
in Fall River and New Bedford.
For new immigrants and lifelong residents in all these areas,
we are commonly affected and need
not to be equally neglected from representation at the highest
levels of government.
Can the wealthiest suburbs of Boston
say they have the same set of needs
and face the same set of daily challenges as those of us
here in the South Coast in Fall River and New Bedford?
Who is speaking up for us in Congress?
Who has our best interests in mind?
Probably not a congressperson who
is split between a wide and varying district of Brookline,
Newton, and Fall River.
In today's climate, the nation is talking about diversity,
equity, and inclusion.
This proposed congressional district map
is off the mark in all those areas.
I'm talking about Black and Brown
people that already struggle to be seen,
as you've heard here today.
You've heard a lot about the immigrant communities,
the people of Portuguese descent.
But the Black and brown people have not been fully mentioned.
It's hard for them to be heard, and it's hard for them
to be seen in the South Coast area.
And certainly, few and far between
in political representation.
These proposed district maps make it even harder
to hear us, see us, and create spaces of decision-making power
for us.
This is about creating equitable opportunities
in some of the most economically challenged cities
in Massachusetts.
We meet someone in our corner who
is fighting for us as a region, as a region
on Native American land.
However, I do not want to sound as
if we are hopeless and helpless in the South Coast.
After all, New Bedford was the city that lit the world.
At the height of the whaling industry,
we are proud and forward-thinking region.
We are looking ahead to shared interests
with the wind energy and the sea and fishing industries.
We do have a shared set of challenges and needs,
but we also have a shared vision of our cities
of the South Coast, which gives us a basis
to stand and work together.
Today, we the members of the Drawing Democracy Coalition
of Massachusetts, and as leaders in Fall River and New Bedford,
are asking for the state to step up and do
what is right for the South Coast of Massachusetts
and to represent our best interest in the redistricting
process.
We are asking you to reunite Fall River and New Bedford
and the rest of the South Coast under a unified congressional
district map.
Thank you.
Thank you very much, Renee.
Andrea Sheppard.
Thank you, Renee.
And thank you also to the members of the redistricting
committee.
I'm Andrea Sheppard Lomba, and I am the Director
of United Interfaith Action of Southeastern Massachusetts,
also known as UIA.
And I work with UIA in our anchor cities
of Fall River and New Bedford.
UIA focuses on work that brings faith communities together
to work on issues of social, economic,
and racial justice in southeastern Massachusetts.
And our current areas include housing, education,
immigrant rights, and public safety.
And across all these different areas of work,
we work equally across Fall River and New Bedford,
bringing common campaigns together
in these two major gateway cities.
And we have been doing this together
across Fall River and New Bedford for the past 25 years.
And in the creation of this organization many years ago,
the founding clergy and community leaders
knew that the two neighboring cities of Fall River and New
Bedford had more in common and were more alike than different,
and that they shared a common set of interests
and a common stake in the future of the region.
And I can briefly provide two examples
of our current-issue work in which we've
been bringing these two cities together
across common need and common cause.
So for instance, in our education work, last spring,
UIA conducted a deep community listening campaign
among parents and educators.
We surveyed those same parents and educators across the region
about how our local schools should use the COVID relief
fund coming in from federal and state sources.
We heard from over 750 parents and educators.
And though we circulated the survey separately in Fall River
and in New Bedford, both cities held the same set of priorities
at the end of our survey period, and they both
prioritized more mental health supports and more support
staff in our classrooms and outside in the larger school
community.
So though different cities, they stated loud and clear
that they're both facing the same set of challenges.
And we know that as gateway cities,
we often find ourselves with great student need,
but also find ourselves fighting to get
the same level of funding and resources
to address that student need and student possibility,
as our larger cities around us and beyond us
in the Commonwealth.
Similarly, the same housing issues
are also facing the residents of Fall River and New Bedford,
both with low affordable housing stock, developers attracted
to larger, more profitable cities,
and increasing rent with low wages.
It has created a true housing crisis
in this part of the Commonwealth.
And through the pandemic, the Southeast Regional Housing
Court has had the highest eviction rates
in the Commonwealth, with Bristol County being
at the lead with the most evictions issued of any county,
though Bristol County is sixth in size of the 14
counties of Massachusetts.
Regional Housing agencies work across city and town lines,
with Fall River and New Bedford fighting eviction authorization
numbers greater than Boston.
But Boston is a city six times the size of our own.
So UIA has seen firsthand the needs
of Fall River and New Bedford and how
they're intricately linked.
These are not the same needs of the rest of the proposed
congressional district of CD4, particularly
among the wealthy suburbs of Boston,
and these are just two of the many areas where
we see a common need and a common interest in the
Region.
We say the South Coast deserves political representation that
comes from, that serves, and that works alongside of us
for common interest.
And we're asking that this region
be united in congressional representation.
And in closing, I would say Henry David Thoreau once said,
the greatest compliment that was ever
paid me was when one asked me what I thought and attended
to my answer.
So at this hearing today, you've asked the people of the South
Coast what we thought about this proposed congressional map,
and we're answering.
We ask you to listen and to attend to our answer,
and respond by creating a fair and equitable redistricting
map for the region that reunites New Bedford and Fall River
and the rest of the South Coast.
Thank you.
And last on this panel is Shane Burgo.
Shane.
Thank you.
Can you hear me all right?
Yes.
OK, thank you.
Good afternoon and thank you to the committee chairs, Senator
Brownsberger and Representative Moran,
as well as the other members of the committee,
for hosting this public hearing.
My name is Shane Burgo, and I am a lifelong resident
of New Bedford, which is within Massachusetts'
9th congressional district.
I am the Affirmative Action Officer of the New Bedford
Democratic City Committee, the Education Chair
of the New Bedford Branch of the NAACP,
a leader from United Interfaith Action in Southeastern
Massachusetts, a member of the Coalition for Social Justice,
and recently elected as New Bedford's newest city
councilor at large.
During this past presidential election,
I had the privilege of serving our 9th congressional district
as one of President Biden's national delegates
at the Democratic National Convention.
This was not an easy task.
Not only was it my first time campaigning,
but it was in the middle of a pandemic,
and I was unable to meet new people
and build relationships outside of my usual network.
I relied heavily on relational phone banking and video chats
with other community groups that fell
within our congressional district.
One of the communities I did not expect to struggle in
was Fall River.
Although it is not a bordering city to New Bedford,
it shares similar demographics.
I've spent a lot of time in Fall River
and have many friends and family that both work and live
in Fall River.
When I reached out to them, they were more than
excited to request their mail-in ballots
and help me get elected on the national level
to bring a voice to not only the youth of our area,
but to our Black, Indigenous, and people of color that
are usually not center stage.
The top contenders in the race had always
been elected to the DNC.
They had the infrastructure and money to campaign
throughout the district for votes,
especially from areas within our district
that are predominantly white.
We knew we had to get a lot of our support
from New Bedford and Fall River if we wanted to be successful.
However, due to the divide in Fall River, some of the support
is still just over the line into the 4th congressional district
and could not vote for me.
This is why I'm here today to share my testimony.
Fall River shares more with New Bedford than any town or city
within the 4th district.
New Bedford and Fall River a post-industrial gateway cities.
We have been working and moving together for years.
Our two cities came together to form what we now
call UMass Dartmouth, previously known as SMU,
from New Bedford Textile School and the Bradford Durfee Textile
School in Fall River.
Our cities are already working together
in one chamber of commerce under the name of One South Coast.
We both have seaports that are venturing into offshore wind.
The list of comparisons and synergies goes on and on.
Fall River does not belong in the 4th district.
It will hurt the communities within Fall River
to make their needs secondary to those of suburban Boston,
and it diminishes the voting power of minority groups.
I urge this committee to stop the dilution
of our political power, and help ease
one of the many causes of voter apathy.
If voters, specifically voters of color
and even youth and working-class voters,
are in a predominantly white district where their vote will
not make as much of an impact, these voters
are likely to not turn out to vote at all.
Do not miss this opportunity to place all of Fall River
into the 9th congressional district, which
will help solve the current divide of our communities.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Thank you very much.
Again, just a couple of points here.
I think people listening should know
that when they talk about a Portuguese community,
we're talking about a community of interest,
and/or an immigrant population.
We are not talking about what is known as a protected class,
like a Hispanic, Black, or Asian population would be.
So just to clarify that that is a community-of-interest
argument.
And it is based around what I believe
in most cases is culture, and the culture of the Portuguese
community, not different than if there was an Italian community
or a Canadian community.
That's what we're talking about, because people
can get confused when we talk about Portuguese,
and then we shift gears to minority.
They are very different in the eyes of redistricting,
and we handle them very different
when it comes to how we draw congressional districts,
or House districts, or Senate districts, for that matter.
So that's just a point of clarification
for people that are listening that may not
use those terms regularly or know the difference in them.
So I would ask any members of the Committee
if they have any questions for this panel.
Hearing none.
Point of personal preference, former Congressman Kennedy
has asked if he could go next, and I have no problem
extending that to him.
So if we could get Congressman Kennedy in here,
that'd be great.
How are you?
And I want to thank that panel for that testimony.
Chairman, can you hear me?
Yeah.
Senator Brownsberger, Representative Fiola.
Hi, everybody.
Good afternoon, Chairman.
Thank you very much for allowing me to testify today.
To members of the Committee, it's wonderful to see you,
even from afar.
And to Chairman Brownsberger and Chairman Moran,
and to all members of the Committee,
thank you for holding these hearings.
Thank you for your incredible work.
I think as everybody knows, I had
the honor of serving in elected office for nearly a decade.
I also know that at times, it can
appear that willingness to dive in deep to the details
can get complicated and create a bit of a storm.
And so I'm grateful for your willingness to do this,
and to open up this process for all.
So thank you, and it is an honor to address all of you
very briefly.
I come before you all today to urge you in the strongest
possible terms to put Fall River and New Bedford
into a single congressional district.
I speak as someone who has had the distinct honor
of representing Fall River in Congress for eight years,
someone whose political career has been deeply influenced
by my time spent and the relationships
that I built across the South Coast,
and someone who has seen firsthand
the myriad ways that the congressional map
in the 4th congressional district
concentrates power in wealthy white communities around Boston
at the expense of working-class and rural communities
across the South Coast.
Keeping Fall River whole is a critical step
in remedying this power imbalance.
And truly, I applaud this committee
for making that decision.
It's absolutely critical and a big improvement.
The reality is, I feel, not sufficient.
The math is simple.
Others have alluded to some of these statistics earlier.
The math for keeping Fall River and New Bedford
apart might work, might, if our state provided equitable access
to civic participation.
So that, yes, Fall River's 94,000 residents
would be on par with Newton's 89,000.
That math might work if election day was a federal holiday,
so that working-class communities across the South
Coast didn't have to choose between a paycheck
and a ballot, if we had the same-day registration that is
needed and necessary, so that families whose days are
consumed by questions of basic survival, food on the table,
rent paid, kids safe, heat on--
so those families don't have to put their sacred right
to vote at the end of a to-do list for that day
and a list that does not itself ever end.
That could work if we'd adequately
resolved historic racial gerrymandering that marked
our state for generations.
So we knew that Black and Brown political power
was fairly valued in this state and every other.
If we had reliable public transit
in every corner of Massachusetts,
so folks without easy access to cars
can make it to a polling location.
If we had adequate public education--
public child care system, excuse me,
so that families barely making ends meet
didn't have to cough up extra money for someone
to watch their kids while they go vote.
But as we all know, we don't have those things.
The equation changes.
And the numbers that we are left with are these.
40,000 people voted in Brookline in the 2020 general election.
60,000 voted in Newton.
16,000 in Wellesley, 20,000 in Needham.
That means 136,000 voters in four communities where
the median household income, average median household
income, is $157,000.
The average distance to Boston is about 10 miles.
Black and Latino populations make up 1/3,
maybe 1/2, of what they do statewide.
Meanwhile, less than 54,000 people
voted in Fall River, where average household
income is about $43,000.
Drive to Boston is an hour and a half
in the best of circumstances.
Population is diverse, racially, ethnically, economically.
136,000 versus 54,000-- you know exactly
whose voices are going to be heard in that district.
At a moment when our state is celebrating tremendous gains
in representation across the Commonwealth,
and thanks in large part to the work
that advocates and members of this committee
have done, from Holyoke to Worcester,
to Lowell, to Boston, a historic wave
of new and diverse candidates is changing
the picture of political power in Massachusetts,
rightfully saying that a political system that had long
been dominated by white voters in affluent Boston suburbs
does not serve them in a way that they deserve.
Civic leaders in the state should
be doing absolutely everything we
can to build a system that not only serves them
adequately, but accurately represents them,
redistricting, that once in a decade chance
to make it happen.
I urge all members of the committee
to seize it and keep Fall River and New Bedford together.
I'm grateful for a chance to speak today.
Thank you for your work.
Thank you, Joseph Kennedy III, we appreciate your testimony.
We'll move on now to Michael Lund.
Michael Lund, are you there with us?
Hello, Mr. Chairman, can you hear me?
Yeah, I can, Michael.
Thanks for signing up to testify,
and thanks for waiting so long.
Thank you for bearing with me.
I found it interesting as I sat here and listened.
Many of the advocates to have Fall River and New Bedford
joined are not from Fall River.
And I think Michael Lund, I'm speaking to you
as both a citizen and a businessman
and a developer from Fall River who lived here and was formerly
president of city council in Fall
River for a number of years.
And I think it's important as the panel listens
to those who have participated today,
it's loud and clear that the people of Fall River
want their own congressional representation.
And I think it's best in a democracy
to listen to the citizenship of the town
or city from which they're from, and not from individuals who
are from other areas trying to make arguments
on what should or should not be for our community.
I can tell you that for those of the panel that
aren't from the South Coast that while Fall River and New
Bedford do share many common interests,
they are in fact two very distinct
and separate cities with both different needs,
different challenges, and quite frankly,
different futures on how they are developed.
Simply, Fall River-- excuse me, New Bedford
is dominated by the fishing industry.
It's a huge part of its economy, and its needs
are very unique to that particular economic engine.
Fall River has absolutely zero business
within the fishing industry.
And its waterfront and its future
will be looked as uniquely different from New Bedford.
And partnership at the federal level to bring about those
changes--
as we convert from an older textile
industrial city to a more modern city
that we see closer to Boston, the partnership
at the federal level will be incredibly important to bring
about that great conversion.
As an employer of over 80 people here
in the city of Fall River through multiple businesses,
I can attest to the fact that we need a strong, unified voice
within our city, to not have that leaves our city divided
and not with a clear mission.
And I serve on a number of boards,
and I speak not only for myself, but many of my colleagues
and citizenship that, as you have proposed it,
I think, was incredible for you to do
and recognize that something was long overdue.
And I just wanted to give my full support
as what you proposed, on behalf of myself,
my employees and the investment that we have all
made collectively down here to really change the path
to the city of Fall River.
And thank you, and thank you for hearing me today.
Michael, thank you for your testimony.
And Michael, you made a point.
This is-- I am noticing, a connection between the people
who are testifying from Fall River and those
that are testifying outside of Fall River.
It's kind of, as a member, as the chair of this committee,
and I'm sure my colleagues on this committee--
it is a very, very unique kind of thing
we're looking at here right now today.
But you know, we're going to try and do what we think is right,
and we're going to go back and talk about all this testimony.
And you know, perhaps we'll take another look at it.
Perhaps we won't.
But we appreciate everybody, whatever side of the divide
you're on here, for your testimony, because it's
valuable.
So thank you, Michael.
Next is Jim Segel.
Jim Segel?
Representative, thank you.
Senator, thank you, I'm Jim Segel.
I actually live in--
I want to say former--
former Representative Jim Siegel, right?
That is correct.
Honorable Jim Siegel, sorry.
That's so-- yeah, yeah.
Thank you.
I actually live in Needham, in the northern part
of the 4th district.
But I think I bring a context to the history of the 4th
that few other people do.
I was a state representative from Brookline
when Congressman Drinan, Father Drinan,
first became a representative of the 4th.
And at that point, the 4th stretched from Brookline
to Gardner.
It went straight west.
And I was then Barney Frank's first congressional campaign
manager when he ran in 1980 in that old 4th district.
He won, barely.
That was the year that Ronald Reagan won in Massachusetts.
2 and 1/2 was passed.
Barney won by under a percent.
But then, in 1982, Senate leadership in, kind of,
payback for some prior actions, redistricted [INAUDIBLE]..
When we lost a seat, he redistricted Barney
into Margaret Heckler's 10th district, which
had existed for decades, which went north-south,
included Fall River.
Did not include New Bedford.
In fact, I don't think all of Fall River
and New Bedford have been combined for 100 years.
Barney had two communities in that district.
He barely won that seat in 1980 and 1982.
But he did win, and Fall River was a very large reason
that he won.
I think, similar to what our prior witness said,
I think we should find out what the Fall River wants
to do in this situation.
Do they want to be the second most important city in a South
Coast district, with the arrival in New Bedford?
Or do they want to be the most important city
in a congressional district?
I know that, having been involved in campaigns
with Barney, and then serving as special counsel for Barney
Frank in 2007 to 2011, and therefore in the office,
I know that Barney spent an inordinate amount of time
on the South Coast.
And in fact, I think there's a plus
to having the northern suburbs that have been mentioned
and the South Coast that are so different and yet compatible.
The issues do not conflict.
And I think that when congressmen
have the choice of allocating resources,
certainly in my experience, and I
think both for Barney and also for Joe, and also
for Jake Auchincloss, actually, all three of them,
the resources are allocated for the most part
to the South Coast.
Because the north does not need those resources nearly as much.
I also know that the South Coast received--
that Fall River received the lion's share of attention
when it was the full city in the 1980s by Barney.
It then was split in half a few redistrictings later.
But he always spent most of his time on the South Coast,
actually.
And the fact that it is so different from Brookline
and Newton, the rest of the base, actually, is a plus.
Because even though, on the issues, for the most part,
they agree, on the resources, it's
clear that Fall River needed more and received them.
So I think that saying that's a negative is wrong.
I think, in fact, that it's a positive.
So you've had a long day today of testimony.
I think if earmarking, by the way, comes back,
and it well may, again, being the largest city in the South
Coast would be very valuable.
And I think the representatives would
put most of their earmarking into those areas.
And one other thing that has been brought up-- if you do
switch, or if you were to switch Fall River into the district,
you would leave either the suburbs hanging, which
would not be right, because Fall River is their anchor,
or you'd have to switch all of those suburbs as well.
And if you did that, the domino effect
would be much more than 38,000.
It would be a multiple of that, and it would really
go ripple throughout the state.
So I think you've done a wonderful job.
I think reuniting the two halves of Fall River
was very important.
And I think both the present incumbents
are excellent congressmen.
They've done an excellent job.
And I think this is a way to give Fall River its due
and to put it back into the statute that it needs.
So I appreciate what you've done.
I think it's a very good plan.
Happy to answer any questions.
Thanks, Jim.
You know, you bring an interesting perspective
as somebody who worked for Barney Frank.
And hear, hear, for earmarks.
I'm one of those people who believes in them.
But that is also a good point.
If the earmarking does come back to Congress,
then we get more than one.
So that is a good point.
I have no questions for Jim.
If anybody else in the Committee has a question, fire away.
I just want to say how much I appreciate your informed
perspective.
Thanks, Senator.
Thanks very much.
Thanks, Jim.
Thanks to both of you, and all of you who've served on this.
Thanks.
OK, next up is Ethan Snow.
Ethan Snow.
And just for everybody who's on the Committee,
we're looking at about 10 more people to testify.
Thank you all for being so patient,
and thank you for everybody who has
stayed with us this whole time.
But we have 10 more people left.
OK.
Ethan Snow, are you with us?
Yeah.
Thanks, Ethan.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you to the rest of the committee for having me here
today and allowing us all to testify
on this important issue.
My name is Ethan Snow.
I'm the Secretary Treasurer for the New England Joint Board
of Unite Here.
We're a labor union that represents
10,000 workers in the manufacturing, distribution,
and hospitality industries in New England and New York.
The New England Joint Board's historic home base
has been in Fall River, in New Bedford, where, for over 100
years, we've represented workers in the factories
and mills of the region's needle trades and textile industries.
The majority of our membership in these cities
are immigrant women of color, already underserved
and underrepresented in 1/4 of our Commonwealth
which gets forgotten all too often.
The needle trades in textile industries of the South Coast,
and the workers who work in them,
are inextricably linked between New Bedford and Fall River.
As a union, we've witnessed the impacts
that global trade deals like NAFTA
have had on these communities.
And in the aftermath of their passage,
we've struggled in coordinating benefits
for laid-off workers between two congressional districts, whose
cities and towns compete with Fall River and New Bedford
for resources.
We represent a similar membership group
in the Merrimack Valley, the anchor
of cities of Lawrence and Lowell,
also post-industrial cities with large immigrant communities
and textile industries.
There, we have the ability to speak with one voice
on behalf of our members, to one congressperson, who in turn can
speak with one voice on the federal level
to support our issues.
That congressperson understands the dynamics
of our industries between those two cities,
and can effectively advocate on our behalf.
You wouldn't think of breaking apart the Merrimack Valley.
So why is it OK to do this on the South Coast?
The decoupling of Fall River and New Bedford
will lead to these cities becoming islands
within their own districts, sharing
little to no community of interest
with the other cities and towns.
I can't think of how New Bedford can
share a community of interest with Nantucket or Chatham
that would be stronger than what it would share with Fall River,
or Fall River with Newton and Wellesley,
that would be stronger than what it
would share with New Bedford.
In this moment, we have a tremendous opportunity
to strengthen the collective voice of the largely
working-class and immigrant communities
of Fall River and New Bedford by uniting the South Coast.
And so I urge you to show these two cities
the respect that they deserve and reconsider
the redistricting of itself.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Chairman, I think you're muted.
Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, buddy.
Thank you, Bill.
I just checked on my staff, and they did tell me
that Merrimack Valley is not wholly
in one congressional district.
The town of Haverhill is not in with Lawrence and Lowell.
So just a point of correction there.
Do any of the colleagues on the Committee have any questions?
We're hearing none, and I want to thank you
for your testimony, Ethan.
Steve Leibowitz is next.
Steve Leibowitz?
Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the Committee,
and also shout-out to your staff members,
who I'm sure put in an inordinate amount of time
to put these together.
That is very much appreciated.
And also, a hello to my friends down here on Cape Cod--
Representatives Peake, Representative Diggs
from the Committee.
A lot what I wanted to say in terms
of bringing Fall River into CD9 has been said already.
I do think it's important to elevate the voice
and testimony of Congressman Keating, my friend who
has served in this area for a number of years, and to take
that seriously, along with that of former Congressman Kennedy
also.
One of the things that really has jumped out to me
is how impactful it would be in CD9 to have a stronger voting
bloc along the South Coast of Fall River and New Bedford.
I don't think that can be de-emphasized.
And the idea that Fall River needs its own member
of Congress to advocate for its needs,
I'm not sure I'm following a lot of the logic that's
been presented with that.
A previous speaker had said, well,
what if New Bedford wants one thing,
and Fall River wants a grant, the same grant?
How is a member of Congress supposed to handle that?
And it's easy to make the case that, well,
what if Newton and Brookline are applying for a similar grant,
or what if New Bedford and Barnstable are
applying for similar grants?
These are things that can be worked out,
and an effective member of Congress is able to do that.
And I think having the ability of better planning, better
cooperation between New Bedford and Fall River
works out for the best.
The point was made about the suburbs also.
And ultimately, I think what is good for any one of the cities,
be it New Bedford or Fall River, would also
be good for the good for the suburbs.
So I would encourage that voting bloc to happen.
And I also point out--
it's been mentioned a couple of times,
in terms of demographics that Chatham is a wealthy community
and Truro is a wealthy community.
Well, I'll point out that while those
are wealthy communities of a few thousand people,
for the benefit of the Committee,
Barnstable County as a whole is well
below the medium income of the state.
So before we put out there that Cape Cod is
all these wealthy communities down here,
there's a lot of working people that
also are very similar to the folks that
are on the South Coast also.
So thank you very much, and I appreciate
the opportunity to testify.
Thank you, Steve.
I appreciate your comments.
I do want to--
I did look up something, though, just a point of reference--
that the average household income in Osterville
is $150,000 a year.
The average household income in Chatham is $115,000 a year.
And the average household income in Nantucket is $148,000.
So I just wanted to point that out.
That's all.
Those are certainly parts of the county,
but again, the county as a whole is, I believe, 8 and 1/2%
below the median state average.
No, I just-- myself and Sarah Peake
have been going back and forth with text messages.
[LAUGHS] In good-natured fun, that's all.
But anyways.
Listen, thank you for your testimony.
I appreciate Representative Peake doing that with you.
Thank you.
And if anyone has any questions from the Committee?
Hearing nine, we will move on to our next person.
Thanks again, Steve, for your testimony.
Bob-- I'm going to blow this last name.
Unger?
U-N-G-E-R, it looks like.
Unger?
Bob Unger?
Is that right?
Is it U-N-G-E-R?
And also, Steve, thank you for thanking our staff,
because not many people do that.
And they have been here putting this together
and all these hearings together, and they've done a great job.
Myself and Senator Brownsberger's staff
have made us look good, and that's
pretty hard to do for me.
I can tell you that.
Bob, are you there?
Yes.
Sorry, I was muted.
No worries, no worries.
Welcome, welcome.
Thank you for waiting.
And I want to thank you, Chairman Moran and Chairman
Brownsberger, and the rest of the Joint Committee
for doing this.
Really impressive work.
My name is Bob Unger.
I am from Fairhaven.
I own Unger LeBlanc Strategic Communications.
I'm a co-owner of Moby Dick Brewing Company.
And for 10 years, I was the editor and associate publisher
of South Coast Media Group, which
published the daily newspaper in New Bedford,
and weekly newspapers in the Fall River suburbs.
And I have lived in the Midwest, the Southeast,
the mid-Atlantic, and I'm always really impressed
by Massachusetts in our sincere efforts
to do things right, as we are here.
This is hard work that you're trying to do,
and I commend the Committee for its openness and receptiveness
to these various voices.
So I'm going to read a statement from the New Bedford
Regeneration Project, which represents about three
dozen employers and nonprofits in southeastern Massachusetts.
And at the end, I will read the names of the signatories
to this statement.
We are a group of business and nonprofit leaders
from across southeastern Massachusetts,
writing in opposition to the congressional redistricting map
proposed November the 1st by the Special Joint Committee
on Redistricting.
The Joint Committee's plan has failed
to address decades of unfairness to the citizens
of southeastern Massachusetts by leaving the region's two
biggest cities, Fall River and New Bedford,
in separate congressional districts, the 4th and 9th
respectively.
The result of the state legislature's adoption
of the Joint Committee's proposal
would be to leave in place a system that
dilutes the political voice and influence
of significant populations of immigrants and minority
residents, and works in opposition to the pursuit
of shared regional, cultural, economic,
and political interests.
For more than a century, the cities
of New Bedford and Fall River, located 15 miles apart,
together home to nearly 200,000 people of similar racial,
economic, and cultural background,
including the nation's largest Portuguese community,
have been either separate congressional districts
or lumped together in a district that
extends all the way to the affluent Boston suburbs, which
have dominated the district politically.
The current district configuration
resulting from the 2010 census is the worst in a century.
It's split Fall River, the state's 10th largest city
and among its poorest in two.
The city's north end has been squeezed
in the gerrymander of 4th congressional district that
runs nearly 50 miles through the Boston border
and includes wealthy and politically powerful
suburban towns, where median home prices exceed a million,
and household incomes are four or five times
greater than they are in Fall River.
Fall River's South End meanwhile forms the westernmost end
of the 9th congressional district,
which extends nearly 50 miles east to Provincetown.
While the Joint Committee's current proposal
would assign all of Fall River to the 4th congressional
district, it again would leave the city's residents
in a district dominated by wealthy suburban communities
that share little with Fall River, which has more in common
with Wareham, Plymouth, and Barnstable,
than with Newton, Brookline, and Needham.
Meanwhile, New Bedford, the seventh largest city
in Massachusetts, would remain in the 9th district dominated
by wealthy resort communities on Cape
Cod and powerful suburban South Shore towns,
with few shared political, cultural,
or economic interests.
It's no accident that no New Bedford
resident has been elected to Congress in 100 years.
The US Supreme Court citing the Equal Protection Clause
of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution
has ruled the drawing congressional district
lines that effectively marginalized citizens
on the basis of race as discriminatory and illegal.
6% of Fall River's residents are Black,
and 11% are Latino, while 7% of New Bedford's population
is Black, and 21% are Hispanic.
The cities are home to fast-growing populations
of Cape Verdeans, Brazilians, and [INAUDIBLE] Americans, who
should be afforded a unified voice in support
of their interests.
Despite having the largest populations of color
in both the 4th and 9th congressional districts,
these populations have not been afforded
a shared political voice to advance their interests.
Those minority populations have been historically
underrepresented politically and have
suffered disproportionately from lower income levels, health
problems, crime, and lower educational attainment
than the affluent and powerful communities that
dominate the 4th and 9th.
It is fair to say that it is directly
the result of the Fall River's and New Bedford's inability
to force those issues to the top of the two districts'
legislative agendas.
It also raises serious questions about racial equity.
Fall River and New Bedford will be best served
by their inclusion in a single congressional district that
would allow them to speak with one voice on behalf
of their common interests, raising educational performance
to generate economic growth, addressing
environmental concerns that disproportionately affect
minority populations, and maximizing
the use of their seaports and manufacturing sectors.
Significant economic forces, including the construction
of a commuter rail link for both cities to Boston,
the establishment of a commercial offshore wind
industry to address the state's energy
needs and the ambitious clean energy goals,
and the development of the blue economy
are forging new shared regional interests
in offshore wind, advanced manufacturing,
and travel and tourism.
The two cities already share a regional transit authority,
and have merged their two local chambers of commerce
to form the One South Coast Chamber, the second largest
chamber in Massachusetts.
They are served by the South Coast Community Foundation,
which funds essential regional initiatives,
and South Coast Health, which serves the region's largest
health care organization.
The unfairness inherent in dividing two similar cities
only 15 miles apart in two separate congressional
districts must be undone, not only to give voice
to minority populations long denied their ability
to elect congressional representatives
responsive to their needs and wishes,
but to elevate a long-shortchanged region
from second-class status.
The state's other leading regional centers--
Boston, Worcester, Springfield, and Lowell-- all
have been consistently represented
by residents of their cities that have been well-served
as a result. Other cities in close proximity,
including Holyoke and Chicopee, Pittsfield and North Adams,
are joined in common political interest
and common congressional districts.
It should be no different for Fall River and New Bedford.
The argument that municipalities get twice the representation
if they are split is based on a falsehood used for generations
to justify the gerrymander.
And it's consistently been knocked down
by the Supreme Court when it has had
a racially disparate effect.
Further, it just doesn't make any sense.
What would be fair would be a 9th congressional district
that encompasses the New Bedford and Fall River
areas in their entirety.
Doing so would unite southeastern Massachusetts
along the entire interstate, the 195 corridor,
and a congressional district that
recognizes the region's common economic, cultural,
and political interests, and would undo an historic wrong
that has hindered the growth of the region
and prevented its citizens of all races and economic classes
from sharing the prosperity that has blessed
the rest of Massachusetts.
We urge this legislature to remedy the situation,
establishing the boundaries of 9th congressional district
that will treat southeastern Massachusetts and its largest
and most economically significant cities
as a single political entity that will amplify the voices
and enhance the influence of their citizens of the US
Congress during the crucial decades ahead of us.
Sincerely, Anthony Sapienza, President of the New Bedford
Economic Development Council; Helena DaSilva Hughes,
President and CEO of the Immigrant Assistance Center;
Liz Isherwood, Chairman and President
of the Greater New Bedford Industrial Foundation and Moore
& Isherwood Communications.
Anne Broholm, CEO of Ahead; Maureen Sylvia Armstrong,
Managing Partner of the Sylvia Group in Dartmouth; and Jeff
Pontiff, owner of EJ Pontiff Real Estate;
myself; Quentin Ricciardi, CEO of Acorn Management;
Peter Muise, retired President and CEO of First Citizens
Federal Credit Union; Steve Silverstein, founder and CEO
of Served Well Hospitality.
Jeff Glassman, President Darn It!
Incorporated; Cheryl Bartlett, CEO of the Greater New Bedford
Community Health Center; Keith Decker,
CEO of Blue Harvest Fisheries; David Slutz,
President and Co-founder and Managing Partner
of the Moby Dick Brewing Company and Airport Grill;
Maria Rosario, Executive Director
of NorthStar Learning Center.
Christopher rezendes Founder and President of INEX Advisors;
Gail Fortes, Executive Director of the YWCA Southeastern
Massachusetts; Denise Porche, resident
of City of New Bedford; Joseph [INAUDIBLE] retired Executive
Vice President [INAUDIBLE] Company;
John Vasconcellos, President of the South Coast Community
Foundation; David Wexler, President and CEO
of Maritime International.
Liz Wiley, Executive Director of the Marion Institute of Marion;
Margarita Graham, President and CEO
of Reliable Bus Lines and J&J Driving School and Logistics,
Inc.; Sarah Athenas, Co-founder of Groundwork;
Richie Canastra, owner of the Whaling City Seafood Display
Auction; and Jim McKeague, resident
of the city of New Bedford.
Thank you for your patience and your time.
Right, Bob.
Thank you.
I have to say a couple of things.
And I said this to the gentleman that, last time,
came before us.
When we draw these districts, we pay very, very close attention
to the United States Constitution,
the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment,
and the Equal Rights opportunities
that were established in the Voting Rights Act.
To be very clear, they are of the highest priority
of this committee.
There is absolutely no instance where
we did any racial gerrymandering whatsoever on this map.
And to suggest so is very toxic.
Right now, you're talking about putting 38,000 people from one
district into another, which would put them
into a district which is the whitest congressional district
in the entire Commonwealth.
So under no circumstances is there
any sort of Section 2 voting rights issue
here, where we have disenfranchised
anyone of color.
That's my first point.
My second point is how many people on that letter
are from Fall River?
I don't know the home addresses of all the signatories.
So I just wanted to be clear.
We looked at that letter last year--
Sure, I would suggest this represents
both New Bedford, Fall River, and the suburban towns of each.
We did a little homework on that letter
when it was last sent to us, and there
wasn't a single person from Fall River that lived in Fall River
on that letter.
So I appreciate your testimony.
I just needed to point out that Section 2 voting rights issue
that you brought up.
And be assured, everybody who's listening
to this or everybody who is watching this,
there is absolutely zero--
zero-- instances in either one of
these congressional districts where we've disenfranchised
any person of color, as provided by our federal and state laws.
Thank you, and I will move on to the next person.
Julie Hall is next.
Julie.
[INAUDIBLE] Hello.
Hello.
Hey, Julie.
How are you doing?
How are you?
I'm all right.
I'm good.
I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised by what
I'm going to say.
I'm going to compliment you right off the bat.
First of all, I have to say thank you
to Senator Brownsberger and Rep Moran,
as well as the entire Redistricting Committee.
I have been watching all around the country
at these redistricting committees going on,
and I'm telling you.
I know it's not going to help you not feel bad,
but everybody's going through the same thing, OK?
And I know that when I spoke to you, what I really appreciate
is, I kept saying, are you hearing me, are you hearing me,
and you got back to me.
And I appreciate that, and that's all I can ask for.
So thank you so much for that.
Thank you.
So I am-- my name is Julie Hall.
I'm a retired Air Force Colonel.
And never mentioned--
I am below that line.
And guess what?
I did run for office.
It is possible.
So I'm going to confirm everything that you've said.
And like I said, I think I'm going to be probably your best
advocate.
I'm going to say right up front, I
am for keeping Fall River as one unified part of the district
and keeping it in district 4.
And I'd like to go on and say why.
Everybody's talked about the gerrymandering.
Thank you for saying that.
I didn't make that very, very clear with my statistics also,
and pointing out that all of the past representatives--
one, two, three-- have all come from Newton or somewhere very
close.
We've got to fix that, and I think you did.
You did.
And I'm pretty satisfied with the way it looks right now.
There is a little bit more of the conservative areas
in this district right now, so that's really wonderful.
So I do appreciate that.
In regards to Fall River and--
excuse me-- New Bedford.
I, too, believe that a unified Fall River is the way to go.
And I also do not want to see it moved out of district 4.
I'm going to tell you why.
My father actually grew up in Fall River.
My mother's family were fishermen.
So I fully understand that.
I myself am a hospital administrator,
and I did health care for many years.
So I understand all of those industries that
are part of the Fall River--
complex is what I'm going to call it.
I have also reached out to several
of the religious leaders in the area.
I've attended the annual Mass, the outstanding law enforcement
offices that you have there in Florida.
I have made my presence known interacting
with the veterans on a regular basis,
even going up and serving the veterans
on Wednesdays and on holidays.
I visited all the fire departments in the city--
one in particular, which needs a little bit of help.
Just going to add that in.
But I guess my point that I'm saying
is that with the right candidate--
and I come from Attleboro.
Attleboro is also a gateway city,
and I think people forget that.
We also have rail.
We've had rail for quite some time.
I was on my city council while I was in Attleboro.
I was on my planning board.
I was on my zoning and land-use board.
So I have quite a lot of experience in that.
But the point is Attleboro also is a gateway city,
so a lot of these things that are being said
also can apply to Attleboro.
And then, we're going to say--
and I did in my testimony to the two chairs--
why can't we be our own district, if you would?
OK?
So the thing is, everybody can't have their own district based
on their similarities.
We can try to do the best that we can,
and I think that this committee did an awesome job
in doing that.
I have a little couple of little notes here.
I started making all these notes, so bear with me, please.
I also served on the Board of Trustees
at Bristol Community College, so I'm
quite familiar with that area.
We also have a satellite of Bristol Community College
in Attleboro.
So we are connected.
We're very connected, and we want to stay connected.
And with all due respect to the Fall River contingent who
signed the letter to this honorable committee,
I believe that I, as well as Congressman Auchincloss,
have established a strong relationship in Fall River
and with that community.
But I also do believe it is not about me.
It is not about him.
It is about the people.
I am a middle-class person.
I am not only middle-class.
I am absolutely geographically in the middle of the district.
I'm not north, I'm not south.
If I'm Switzerland, if there is Switzerland here, I'm it.
Because I'm not north, and I'm not south.
But I do represent the middle class and the working class.
I grew up in a very large family.
I got my degree and my education in the military.
I started at the very bottom like a lot of the people
that, probably, I'm going to meet
and I do meet in Fall River and some of the other cities
and towns that I go through.
And I worked my way up to Colonel.
I am a fighter.
So if you have the right person who's willing
and has the skills to bring people together, it can be done
and it will be done.
And I will be coming out to visit all of the people
out there, all the leaders out there,
and I really hope that you'll keep an open mind for me.
I appreciate that.
Again, in closing, I am 100% for what you've done.
I appreciate that you listened to me and when I had to say.
I also went and said, get rid of Newton, Brookline, Wellesley.
And just, can I tell you something?
I just want to make a comment.
It's not that we don't like Newton, Brookline,
and Wellesley.
They're wonderful people.
They're just not our people.
So in closing, I do want to recommend
just the way I see it here.
You did a great job.
I appreciate it, and thank you so much for allowing
me to be here.
Thank you, Julie.
Thank you very much.
We try our best.
Anybody on the Committee have any questions?
Hearing none, we will move on to-- we have one, two, three,
four people left.
So I'm going to absolutely make a mockery out of this name,
but I'm going to give it my best shot.
Is Dhruba Sen?
Dhruba Sen?
It's Dhruba, yes.
Yeah.
So--
Thank you for being with us, and thanks for waiting.
Thank you for your patience.
Well, thank you very much, Senator and Representative.
It's my honor and privilege to make this testimony.
So I was just curious as to the residency requirement of one
year.
Is that federally mandated or statewide?
Because if it were statewide, it would have been much easier
to make that one-year residency to six months,
and we would have got some time and used some regional modeling
and arrived at where many more people would be satisfied.
Sorry, I did search the internet,
trying to find out whether that is federally mandated,
the residency requirement, or state, and I could not find.
There is no residency requirement
for Congress or Senate.
Senate senators have to move into the district
by the time they get sworn in, I believe.
And the House is the only place where
there's a one-year residency requirement.
But those are for the state House positions,
not for Congress.
What we're taking testimony now is
on the congressional maps, the nine congressional maps
that we drew.
Oh, OK.
So my question was, if we had even--
then we could have then waited for some more time
and given some time to the residents
to weigh in on the maps.
That's what I was trying to get at.
We've been doing this for-- we had 20 hearings.
We had-- this might be the 21st hearing, actually.
But--
OK.
We provided with-- well, you can never--
sometimes you can never have enough time.
But I think when you compare it to other states
and you compare it to previous redistrictings in this state,
there was as about as many as we've ever had.
So I'm sorry if you didn't miss it
or you missed one of the hearings.
But we're glad you came to this one.
So what else do you have us to tell--
what else do you have to testify on?
Basically, I thought it's a good idea,
in terms of minority-majority, that idea that you came up
with.
I'm very glad, but it would have been
better if we kept the towns and cities together as much as
possible.
That's all that I had to say.
And possibly, I know there are regional modeling
tools available, which would have done that.
But maybe next time.
All right.
Thank you very much.
Thank you for your testimony and your patience.
We very much appreciate it.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
No worries.
Next, we have David Lima.
David Lima?
Hello.
I'm Reverend David Lima.
I'm the Executive Minister of the Church
Council of Greater New Bedford.
And I also had notes prepared and everything else.
And after listening to all of this, all this time, number
one, I commend you, Chairman Moran and the others,
for all the work that you've done.
And actually, I really commend you
that you're actually going through this a second time.
You know, because it takes the wisdom of Solomon.
But the difference between Solomon
and the work that you guys have done
is, when he made a decision, that was it,
and he didn't have to put up with everybody having comments.
So again, thank you for the opportunity.
That is what makes our country great.
That being said, I think that I am in favor of--
I'm glad Fall River is able to be one city in a district.
But I do believe it should be in the 9th,
and I do believe it should be connected to New Bedford.
That being said, I respect all the voices that I've heard.
I am not a Fall River resident.
I have been a lifetime resident of the city of New Bedford,
but I have walked across all the South Coast.
I've worked in the city of Fall River for quite a few years
and a couple of different businesses
before I became a minister.
And the faith community, we do work across all these cities
and towns together.
And we have seen a lot of things that are in common.
I think the one thing that I would say the most is--
and the thing that disturbs me the most
and embarrasses me the most--
is almost the back-and-forth between Fall River and New
Bedford, where we keep having this sibling rivalry or however
anybody wants to define it.
And that, to me, is what scares me the most--
is looking to have our own congressman
so that we can go after grants, as opposed
to what New Bedford's doing.
And though people have said, when
we can work together, we'll work together,
but otherwise we're competing against one another--
and we're missing.
We're missing the very thing that we should be recognizing,
and that's, when our voices are working together,
that's when they work.
I know it was said earlier that a lot of the large entities,
the South Coast hospitals, the colleges, the Chamber--
that a lot of them are remaining silent.
Well, that goes both ways.
They're going to remain silent, because no matter
what they say, somebody is going to be upset with them,
and they're working across all the groups, all
across all the territory.
But that in itself should give us
an idea that those that are in those organizations, hospital
system, educational system, and everything else,
are coming together because they recognize
that the collective working together, getting
past our territorial differences and our boundaries,
is what actually makes us stronger.
You have stated more than once, Chairman Moran,
that we're only talking about 38,000 in number
being added to the district.
But that 38,000, when it's added to a lot of what is fluent,
in the Newtons and everything else,
and whatever number New Bedford has assigned to it--
I don't have that off my head--
and we're talking about the Chathams and the Truros,
and all of those, it makes the percentage a lot smaller.
Whereas if we're both in the same district,
now you have the balance in what is happening.
You have more of a voice, collective voice.
And even though it's been pointed out
by many of my Fall River neighbors
that we are not so similar, we are definitely
a lot more similar in our makeup, in our demographics,
in our income levels, in even our real estate
and everything else.
We are a lot more similar than we
are with the Newtons and all of those, and with the Chathams.
Our voices working together, if we would ever
get past our sibling rivalry, is actually stronger
together in a district rather than
competing with one another.
And that's what we should be working towards.
And I would encourage again, the Committee,
as our representatives in the state of Massachusetts,
to recognize the strength of what is being said.
In not having competing communities,
or communities that would rather work together so that we can
succeed, a strong congressman, a good congressman--
and Barney Frank, let's face it, was--
he was national.
The man was above and beyond just down local politics.
His voice carried, and so he was able to do great things
for Fall River, and I commend him for that and the work
that he did.
And I commend what the Representative said.
But the representative that has represented the area closest
is the one I think we really should be giving heed to,
and that's Representative Kennedy.
When he recognizes and states that it's
not just the number on paper but the number that turns out,
the number and the monies that are
able to be raised in these affluent communities, which
helps move the things that need to be done
and pulls representatives--
if you have the two cities together, now
it's more likely that somebody, as you've stated earlier,
is going to come out of our area that lays their head in one
of our communities.
Of course, then we'll fight about,
they should live in Fall River or New Bedford.
But you know, that's why we offer counseling.
I think that's what I wanted to say.
I think that we're stronger together,
and if we could get past our rivalries
and our shortsightedness, we would
recognize that that's what's really
going to make a great district.
And I would hope it would be considered.
Thank you, David, for your testimony.
And again, thank you for hanging with us the whole time here.
And we're coming down to the end,
so I don't think any of my colleagues have any questions.
Any questions from anybody?
OK, hearing none, we will go to the second-to-last person
to testify.
Thanks, again, David, for your testimony.
James DuPont.
James DuPont?
Are you there?
We see you, Jim.
Can you hear us?
There you are.
Your mute button.
You gotta hit the Unmute.
It's in the corner of your screen there.
Still can't hear, even though he's unmuted.
It still shows him muted.
Let's see if the microphone may be broken, Jim.
Because you're unmuting yourself,
but we still can't hear you.
[INAUDIBLE]
Jim, you might want to try to just quickly log off and log
back in.
Sometimes that will help.
Or if you have earbuds you could plug in--
Yes.
You might get around your internal microphone
on your computer.
All right, Jim.
If you can hear me, see if we can figure that out.
We're just going to bypass you for a second.
Maybe you log off and log back in.
We're going to move to Paul Hart.
Paul Hart, are you with us, Paul?
[INAUDIBLE] in?
All right, can you hear me?
Oh, we got you.
We got you.
Hey, how are you doing today?
I'm all right.
Thank you for waiting, Paul.
I really appreciate--
I have had a very hectic day with my family,
personal issues.
But I'm glad to be here today.
I'm a Fall River School Committeeman at Large.
Just reelected.
And I'm a proud member of the city of Fall River.
And I think it would be a very good thing
if we could have our one representative for Fall River.
And I think there's a good dichotomy, I think,
with the city of Fall River and New Bedford as twin cities--
not just twin cities, but gateway cities.
And I think if you have that one person, that one
representative representing Fall River, and New Bedford--
one person representing New Bedford,
I think both our needs would be taken care of perfectly.
And Jake Auchincloss is a good man.
I'd love to continue working with him.
I like Bill Keating as well.
But I just think that we would be the largest district--
largest city, I'm sorry, in that district,
if it's formulated correctly, and I hope it will.
But I'm all in favor of this, and that's pretty much
all I have to say.
I'll answer any questions that you have,
but I'm thrilled to be here and to talk to you, Mr. Moran.
Thank you, Paul.
I very much appreciate you taking time out
of your schedule to come and join us.
It's been a long day and we've heard a lot of testimony,
but it's--
I don't know if it's 50-50, but it's
pretty close to 50-50 between those
that want Fall River to have their own congressperson,
and those that want Fall River and New Bedford to be
in the same district.
But I will ask my committee if they have any questions.
Any members of the Committee have any questions?
All right, Paul.
Thanks again for your testimony.
We're coming down to the end of this hearing right now.
All right.
Have a great day.
All right.
Have a good one.
Thanks, Paul.
You, too, now, take care.
We have somebody named Tom, who has been waiting.
He doesn't have a last name, but he has been waiting.
And I think he wants to testify, so we're going to bring him in.
Tom.
[INAUDIBLE]
Hello?
Tom?
How are you doing, buddy?
I'm doing well.
How are you?
I'm all right.
Thanks for your patience.
Thank you for taking me.
Actually, I testified before this committee-- obviously,
a different committee--
10 years ago in New Bedford.
And I think I'm going to bring a different perspective than I've
heard all day long here.
I'm talking specifically about the opioid crisis.
I'm a registered pharmacist.
I graduated from Mass College of Pharmacy in 1968.
I still own my own independent pharmacy in Fall River.
I probably deliver more prescriptions to New Bedford
than I do to Fall River, because New Bedford doesn't
have-- or didn't have an independent pharmacy.
They've had one in the past 18 months or so.
But very closely aligned with New Bedford my whole life.
And I think Fall River and New Bedford could be together.
Because right now, I'm currently President
of the Board of Stepping Stone, which services substance abuse
patients throughout our area of Fall River
and New Bedford, homelessness.
And we have clinics in New Bedford,
we have houses in New Bedford, we have houses in Fall River.
There are so many similarities in the opioid crisis.
I think we should be together.
I know this is probably a little different
than what my Representative Carole Fiola thinks.
Because her and I have testified about methadone
being filled in pharmacy so that people
have more access to medication than just clinics.
Because clinics are just open a small amount of time,
where pharmacies are opened all day long.
I'm not sure if this committee knows on the opioid crisis.
But if you live, say, in one of the outlying districts,
Seekonk, MassHealth will pay a taxi
to drive you to Fall River to attend a methadone clinic,
and they pay to drive you back to Seekonk,
where Representative Fiola and I wanted
to have methadone in pharmacies, so that first of all, people
could get the type of care they need with that disease.
And second, that it would be far less
cost effective for MassHealth and other insurance companies
to pay for all this transportation.
Most of my comments have been about exactly what
all the other people say.
Like, in this past election, Fall River had a 28% vote,
and New Bedford had a 10% vote.
You know, our people don't vote.
And I don't know why, but I think
it's because we're such a poorer community,
that they don't understand some of the things that
need to be done.
As a pharmacist, I see a whole different set
with this pandemic.
Most of my patients come here.
We have different languages.
We have a very diverse pharmacy.
I have six pharmacists, and I have 28 supportive personnel
of different backgrounds to serve the clients
that we serve.
And many of our clients cannot access the internet to go
to one of these clinics and to register or to do a job
for them, or whatever they needed to do to get
into a lottery system.
And the whole system of, like, Mass Department
of Public Health and--
they don't seem to understand the needs of poorer people
and people who are semi-illiterate
and not computer technology.
We have a lot of elderly that can't utilize technology.
I remember Carole-- her and I had a drug take-back or a gun
take-back program together, and Carole was so
excited that she, finally, at 1 o'clock
in the morning, going out to some site
that she could get the vaccine.
And it seems that we are neglected in certain areas.
And I would think that if Fall River and New
Bedford were together, we would be much better
off as two sister cities.
And I just think that we need to be together.
And I think the one congressman is definitely
a huge, huge plus.
Certainly, if it's in the 4th and the 9th,
it's still one congressman.
But I think, all in all, if we have the opportunity
to be with New Bedford, I think we would be much better off.
And in pharmacy school and high school and stuff,
math was a huge subject.
So in conclusion, I just like to give you a math statement.
To understand math correctly, you have to read the problem
and understand the problem.
You have to read the problem, sometimes three or four times.
And once you read the problem three or four times
and you understand the problem, then the math becomes easy.
And if we stay together as Fall River and Bedford,
I think we'll go a long way together
to bring up our sister communities from where
we are now, so that we can compete
with the Chathams and the Brooklines
and the Truros and stuff.
So I would like to see if you would reconsider and consider
Fall River and New Bedford together in the same district.
Thank you very much for all your hard work.
I understand that this is a huge, huge undertaking,
and it's been a pleasure listening to all these comments
today.
Thank you very much.
Thank you, Tom.
Thank you for your patience and waiting as long
as you did to testify.
We really appreciate your testimony.
Mr. Chairman.
Yes.
Just a point of clarification or personal privilege,
since two of the communities that I represent are mentioned
now and almost everybody's comments--
that would be Truro and Chatham--
and thrown into the basket with Newton.
I want to point out for clarity's sake, as it comes
to [INAUDIBLE],, the town of Newton
is a city of approximately 88,000 people.
There are less than 2,400 people that live in Truro,
and there's all of about 6,100 people that live in Chatham.
So comparing Truro to Newton, I think, is a false equivalency.
And just for members of the public who are still
on the line, I just don't want people going away
thinking that we have a Newton-sized city that exists
at the elbow of Cape Cod.
So thank you.
You're very welcome.
Point well-taken.
We have two more people left.
We have people that are signing up as we speak apparently.
So we're going to go back to James DuPont.
Hopefully, he's had the microphone situation all set.
James, are you there?
Tell me if you can hear me now.
Here we go.
All right, James.
Welcome.
Generally, when I get up at town meeting,
I'm the last person to speak and everybody's
looking at their watch.
So I won't take umbrage if any of you need to leave.
But Representative Moran, thank you so much
for your patience in this, and also
your hard work and your staff.
I did some redistricting work in the '70s
when the House was cut.
And I got to tell you, it's not as easy as just doing the math,
and I want to thank you for your hard work.
You have a very difficult task.
There are many competing and conflicting voices in this.
Now, in the interest of full disclosure,
I was an elected member of the Bridgewater-Raynham School
Committee and selectman of my town for 26 years.
I've worked on a number of legislative issues
over the years, with the federal representatives and the state
legislators in my area.
And what's been said so far today, I'll leave on the table.
It doesn't need to be said again.
But I want to introduce a term just for the Committee
to think about.
And I mean, this in the respectful sense.
I'm not here to argue.
And I think, quite frankly, the people
who have been doing this work on Beacon Hill,
as well as the people who have been representing Massachusetts
in my area of the state as well as other areas,
I think they all work hard.
They're very decent people, and they're
trying to do their best.
But I think the phrase that I want to introduce
is what I call a legal fiction.
You've heard a number of people talk
about an advocate, how you get to representatives, that it
would be--
this is great to have one representative for Fall River
and another one for New Bedford.
Well, actually, the story was told
when Fall River was split into two districts
that this would be to their benefit.
And I think the reality of it is that when
you try those two-representatives things,
theoretically, well, why not split it into four districts
and give them four voices?
Now, you as members of the legislature,
members of the Committee, the senators and representatives
that serve on that, you're aware of what's
called a seminal issue.
There are certain issues that affect your district
that, because of the numbers involved,
of the people involved, you take action on.
And not that you don't take action
on everything that is brought to your attention.
But there are things that become seminal issues to you
as legislators.
And I think that the point that needs to be made--
there's been a failure of representation
in Fall River and New Bedford of the two-representatives theory.
Now, Barney Frank represented Raynham well.
I worked with his office on a number of things.
And by the way, I was a five-term member
of the Republican state committee.
I'm kind of with that other party.
By the way, Representative Moran, earlier, you
talked about an insinuation or a reference
to possible racial suppression of the vote or dividing it.
There's been no cracking.
There's been no packing of racial or ethnic minorities
in this.
You have done very, very, very well on that.
Just for the record, the last person from Bristol County
to be elected to Congress was in 1964.
Joseph Martin.
He was defeated two years later by Margaret Heckler.
And the last person from Plymouth County
to be elected to Congress was in 1968,
and that would be Hastings Keith from West Bridgewater, who
represented New Bedford at the time.
So this legal fiction seems to be talked about.
And a lot of what I've heard today
is what I'll call "inside baseball."
You heard from a lot of people who were players
in the political system.
I'm a private citizen.
I hold no public office.
I held office.
I ran for office.
But I'm just talking to you now as a citizen.
And by the way, Raynham is one of those communities
that is right now split between two members of Congress.
The other side of the street, my neighbors
right out that window, they live in another district.
I think that what needs to be said
about putting Fall River and New Bedford into one district--
if the elected member of a legislative body,
such as any one of the members of this committee
or the greater whole of the Senate and the House--
right now, they only have to go so far
as the political calculation as it relates
to Fall River or New Bedford.
I don't think there's any member on that committee who,
if they were told that you have two communities
of that size in one district--
I don't think anybody here would argue that whoever
ran for or got elected to that seat
would have to be mindful of both of those communities.
You heard a lot about Fall River and New Bedford competing.
But the fact of the matter is Fall River
and New Bedford are partners in so, so many ways.
And take, for example, the issue of commuter rail.
Commuter rail was delayed, delayed,
delayed during a period in time when everybody--
as certain people who spoke earlier would say, well,
we had two representatives.
It should have been so much easier,
should have been so much more forceful.
But it got delayed, because there was not
one representative there who, once in Congress, would
go to the leadership and say, this is a seminal issue.
I need this addressed.
So I think that the political reality of it--
and I know, Representative Moran,
this is not just numbers.
I happen to have worked with and have
spoken with Dax Crocker and his Social Justice Project people
many times.
I favor his plan.
Putting Fall River and New Bedford into one district
will create a voting bloc that, regardless
of who the candidate is, they will
need to be mindful of that.
So I think the last thing I'd want to say is that--
and I think it was very good to hear
from Representative Haddad, who I've
worked with on some things--
good representative, former state Senator.
Now, there have been a number of people who spoke today--
Senator Mike Rodrigues.
Mike Rodrigues is from the smallest town in his community.
And yet, he gets elected, because he pays attention
to the biggest one, which is Fall River.
There have been a number of candidates from Fall River who
ran in that district in its various iterations
over the years.
Barry Monahan, former police commissioner, Fall River, lost.
Bert [INAUDIBLE],, philanthropist,
successful businessman, ran and lost.
There was a former state representative
who was a state Senator, a West Point grad,
named Bob McCarthy, who ran.
There was a senator from East Bridgewater at the time-- lost.
And in 2001, on a fateful day in September,
a man named Marc Pacheco, a Portuguese kid from Taunton,
Massachusetts, ran for Congress.
And as he got further north in the district
and it got less Portuguese and got more affluent and higher
educational, higher socioeconomic indexes,
Senator Pacheco did less well.
And the reality of it is that--
and I think the task for the Committee is that these
districts-- the goal should be--
the overriding priority should be to make the districts fair,
so that whoever runs for that district represents it well,
is representative of it.
And I just think it's an unfair thing
to ask people with lower socioeconomic status,
recent immigrants, people who are starting out
life in America, trying to do the best they can,
to somehow think that they can somehow go to upper-income,
well-heeled, higher echelon communities like Newton
and Brookline, education levels, economic opportunity
levels, background levels, social
and political connections.
Those communities are not in sync
with the life of the average person in Fall River and New
Bedford.
But if you put Fall River and New Bedford together,
it becomes a community of people who, as has been stated--
heavy Portuguese presence.
Non-Hispanic whites, Representative Moran, as you
pointed out, but they are immigrants.
First-generation, second-generation.
For many of them, English is a second language.
The fact of the matter is, you've got Fall River and New
Bedford, which are major cities that try to tell them,
it's great for you to have your own rep,
when they've been told for the last 20 years, if you have two,
you're so much better off.
I said, well, the point is you should put them
so they're not competing but they're working together.
They're partners in a lot of ways.
And I think that that's what needs to be accomplished here.
Dax Crocker's project has done the math.
He's talked about how you could put little old Raynham--
remember us?
I know everyone's talked about Fall River and New Bedford.
Little town, Raynham-- once upon a time,
we were in one congressional district.
We'd like to be in one again.
Dax Crocker's plan facilitates that.
I think it's a matter of fairness to the process
and to the people.
I know there are a lot of other interests involved.
But from the view from the man in the street,
I'm just a guy who pays his taxes and votes
every chance he gets.
I think you should put Fall River and New Bedford
into one district, create that community
as a whole for ballot purposes.
And if you can do--
and if, while you're doing that, you could put Raynham in back
with Taunton as a whole, we'd appreciate it very much.
Representative Moran, thank you so much for your time.
I appreciate your patience and your hard work.
Jim, thank you.
And I'm glad we fixed your mic there.
But I will ask my committee members
if they have any questions for James.
Anybody?
Hearing none, thank you, Jim, for your testimony.
And let me--
I believe-- let me just check one more time
that we have no more people.
Jim was the last one.
But Carole Fiola did ask for a point of personal privilege.
As a member of the Committee, I'm
more than happy to extend it to her.
Carole, what do you have to say?
Wow.
Well, what a day it's been.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, to you, and Chairman Brownsberger.
I think this is a great day for democracy,
to take in and listen and to hear varied points of view.
Being the person from all over on this committee,
we heard a lot about Fall River.
We had nine congressional districts to vet out today,
but ours was, I believe, the only one.
I was pretty shocked that we were in this position.
I felt-- as you heard today, people who live in Fall River
feel very, very, very comfortable
and very enthusiastic and excited about the proposed map
that we have and you have worked tirelessly on.
It's something we've asked for many years.
And I think the only thing I really want to say
is, I want to thank my committee members for sitting
through these hours and hours.
I see all your faces here.
I heard about not competing and working together.
The last gentleman mentioned it, many others mentioned it.
And I have to just suggest to you all and let you all know,
we have been doing that.
We have been working together on collaborative issues that
affect both of our communities.
These are the South Coast Rail.
We don't have to just rely on our congressperson,
although we did it under two congresspeople.
We have wind energy coming to this region.
Having two voices is what we had when we brought
these things to fruition.
These are projects that take years and years to come
together.
We know that.
Infrastructure, major new economic initiatives
are years in the making.
And I can tell you today that, as we sit here today,
Fall River and New Bedford collaborate
on the things that are of mutual interest to them,
and we do it beautifully.
I will tell you that when we need unique attention,
getting it from our own congressperson
is what we want to do.
And I feel very, very comfortable with this plan
that we each are represented, and that we come together.
You're right.
The hospitals represent different areas.
They have the benefit of two congresspeople fighting
for their federal issues and funding.
The community college has two congresspeople
fighting for their districts.
They feel it's a plus.
I'm going to guess.
I don't know that.
They didn't speak.
I'm just going to say they're not here.
We have a big win here for Fall River,
for all of the populations, for the communities
of interest, for every socioeconomic ring
in the community.
We have a win.
We finally have our voice together in this map.
And that's what I've heard.
I also know today that I think only one person
from Fall River, one Fall River a resident weighed in not
in support of the proposed map.
You heard electeds, you heard business,
you heard community people weighing in.
I hope the Committee will take stock in that.
I understand a lot of the people who spoke today.
I will tell you, I'm going to be very honest.
I did not hear from almost any one of them.
I can tell you today--
I didn't want to say this, but I'm going to say it.
I heard people say they've worked on it for three months,
they've worked on it.
I have not heard from one of these people,
except maybe an email that was a chain email.
And in that chain email, I just need to say,
I don't want to distract, but you know,
it referenced that South Coast Rail, the blue economy,
and wind energy is at stake if Fall River has
its own congressperson and New Bedford has theirs.
I wasn't going to bring that up, but what I want to do
is be fair here.
We are winning.
As the only district that has an issue,
Fall River has great representation.
I don't even want to bring in the personalities.
Congressman Keating and Congressmen
Auchincloss our first-class representatives.
They are wonderful.
They have served us well together.
[INAUDIBLE] Congressman Kennedy before, along with Keating.
What I'm saying to this committee is,
this is a good map.
You heard from people from Fall River.
I understand, hearing for the first time
today, the strong desire by all of the New Bedford groups
who want to bring us in, because I
did hear, maybe from one of the last speakers,
because they would like a congressperson.
I get it.
Guess what?
If someone from Fall River wants to run for Congress,
they can gear up, plan a campaign, get on the street.
And as I think the chairman pointed out,
as we've been aware, the population below the mid-line
is about 55% of the district.
It can be done.
Maybe at times, it hasn't been done, because it
wasn't the right candidate.
In the last time, where only half of Fall River was--
a little less than half of Fall River
was in this last 4th congressional race,
everyone said, if someone from Fall River ran,
they'd have won.
Imagine now, there's a full district, and having
the strength of that.
And New Bedford has the ability to do the same.
And imagine, if we field two good candidates, what
can happen?
So I don't want to go on.
I listened all day.
I'm so appreciative to every single person who spoke.
And I know this did not--
everyone took such great time.
And I did think when the maps came out on Monday,
they were great for everyone.
Always, there's some tweaking that people would like to see,
but that's the nature of this process.
But I sit here today and say to you,
you've heard from Fall River people.
This is not a coffee shop conversation.
This is not once since Monday that people on the streets
have been saying, you know, hey, I
would like to weigh in on this.
They didn't even know it.
And frankly, I'm going to tell you one last thing.
Two people today who were planning to testify,
after listening to half of the testimony,
said I'm not testifying.
I support keeping Fall River as one.
I didn't understand it.
So I just leave my committee members with that.
And again, only-- I took a point of personal privilege.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Only being from Fall River, I want to thank all of the people
that weighed in today, and especially
my committee members who have the daunting task of working
forward.
Thank you.
Thank you, Representative Carole Fiola.
And let me just say this.
It's been pointed out to me that yourself, Pat Haddad, Senator
Rodrigues-- all of you should take a bow, because that South
Coast Rail was done with state money, zero federal.
So when we talk about South Coast Rail,
I want due credit to go to the people that deserve it.
And it's that region's state delegation that brought that
in for that region.
And obviously, the governor, who also
was very, very considerate of it.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
I said I was done, but I just want
to go on and say one last thing related to that.
All of the South Coast legislative delegation
works seamlessly together.
We work extremely well together.
Fall River, New Bedford, Taunton,
and even going out to Swansea, Somerset, Seekonk--
we all work well together.
So I appreciate you acknowledging that.
You guys--
We are collaborating.
So I do have a late arrival.
Sonny Fernandes, who just jumped in.
He must have heard we were about to shut it down.
And I do want everybody to have a voice.
I don't care whether they just checking in now or not.
But Sonny wants to testify.
Sonny, can we promote Sonny, please?
Guys, we're almost done.
I'm sorry.
Who's the second person?
Thank you so much for the opportunity.
I am-- can you hear me?
We can hear you.
Thanks for the opportunity.
I have been listening since 11 o'clock.
Thank you very much for all your hard work.
I have been in America, as I came to America to-- especially
Fall River area over 30 years.
I'm a Brazilian.
I have been involved in community outreach,
and with collaborating with a lot of organizations, church
leaders, and a coalition for social justice
in many, many important events.
I am right now going to work as a nurse.
I'm actually a little late because of this.
Because it's so important to me that as a mother,
as a business owner, and as a community leader,
I urge all your senators to give this moment that
is a pivotal moment.
We cannot wait for 10 more years to gather our neighbors
and to collaborate with our neighbors.
Yes, Representative Carole Fiola said
it would work as well with South Coast.
I respectfully disagree, because as a person that
is working with the community and with the minority
community in Fall River, I see the struggles.
I see what Representative Kennedy said.
A lot of parents cannot get out of the house,
because they have kids.
They cannot afford a roof.
I have been helping communities and families
with little things, donation.
So please, I urge you not to divide and dilute
the power that we can have as a neighbor, as a South Coast,
as a united South Coast.
I founded-- I am also the founder
of Brazilian Association of South Coast.
Because South Coast is one.
South Coast has to remain one.
Please don't dilute the power that unity can have.
You can see the education.
The biggest challenge on helping the minority communities
in Fall River is the level of education.
There is so much more that we can do.
And we cannot do anything if we divide each other instead
of collaborating and uniting each other.
There are a lot of communities.
We also, through the Coalition for Social Justice,
sent to the committee over 125 signatures
to you from residents of Fall River,
and from people of Fall River that
reside and have a business like myself,
and residents in Fall River.
I also urge for you to add Freetown and the neighboring--
the neighbors, the neighbors cities around Fall River.
We cannot be divided.
Please.
Thank you so much for your service,
and I echo what the mayor of New Bedford said.
We cannot be separated.
Let's unite.
We don't need two representatives.
We just need to work together.
I have all the members of the community like Carlos Cesars,
who would love to give a statement
and didn't have a chance, because obviously, we've
got to work for a living.
Our income in the South Coast and the Fall River area
is not an income that you can compare with northern Brookline
and Newton.
So please, thank you so much for your service
and for your effort in doing this.
But keep the neighbors of South Coast as one great South Coast.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Sony, for your testimony.
Given that you're driving, I think
we'll have to not ask you any questions.
So thank you for your testimony.
Appreciate it.
You're the second-to-last person to testify.
We have one more person left.
And that would be Sandra Augustino.
Hello.
Oh, another car driver.
Excellent.
Yeah, I'm driving.
So yeah, I am so appreciative of having
the opportunity to speak.
And coming just in time, I am a Fall River public school
teacher that just had a meeting and ran to pick up my son,
so that I don't have to pay an extra hour for him
to stay at daycare.
So this is how middle-class families live in Fall River,
struggling and working hard to make ends meet.
So I am a mother, and also a public school educator.
And besides that, I am a Portuguese-Azorean resident
of Fall River with a lot of pride.
I've been living here for the past seven years,
but I was born here, so lived here.
My childhood and 28 years, I lived in the Azores.
And was also an elected official there,
and have some of the experience of working with the community.
I am speaking today as a resident of Fall River,
and also as an Azorean-Portuguese Fall River
resident.
Like I was saying, when I lived in Portugal,
and when I was a child and young adult living in Portugal,
I always heard that people that moved from Portugal to come
to the United States would either come
to Fall River or New Bedford.
I wouldn't hear any other places in the United States
where we would come from or we would come to.
It would be either Fall River or New Bedford.
So coming here to Fall River a lot when I was young,
I would see a lot of people that came from the islands
and from St. Michael, the island where I came from.
So this is where most of my family is.
This is where most of the people that left
my village in San Miguel is.
I lived in the area next to Bedford street, and over here,
I would say that 100%, almost 100% of the community
is from San Miguel and from my village, which is great.
It feels like home.
Like I was saying, coming here and living here
has been great for me as a person that was born here.
And I have all my family here.
Most of them have houses here and small businesses now.
Some of them still live in Fall River.
Others bought houses in Westport, Dartmouth,
around the area.
But the ones that live in Fall River
had worked very hard to maintain their homes, to keep
the rents cheap for people that are working-class,
and that want to stay in our city.
So Fall River has a lot of--
if you want to eat Portuguese food,
this is the place to come.
Fall River, New Bedford, this is where
you can find nice, fresh Portuguese meat and fish.
So if you want to hear Portuguese festivities,
this is where you come, to Fall River and New Bedford.
I have worked as a community organizer for United Interfaith
Action for four years, and we worked with the community
in New Bedford in Fall River.
And I have been very close with both communities,
and especially with the Portuguese community.
Because of the fact that I am Portuguese-speaking,
I was able to interact with the communities
the Portuguese communities in both cities, which
was very interesting for me.
And I was able to see that both communities have
a lot of interests and a lot of challenges in common.
We face challenges in our education system
that, I would say, both cities have in common.
We have worked on the similar issues together--
its public safety, its education, its addiction,
its young adults and gang activity.
So there are things that are very similar in both cities.
So I'm here saying that for me, the South Coast
area needs to stay together.
We need to keep Fall River with New Bedford,
because I believe this is the best
opportunity that we have to have a voice in the South Coast
area.
And if we are separated and with two senators representing
the South Coast area, it is not going to feel the same.
We are not going to have the same power.
As a Portuguese Azorean, I feel that this is the opportunity
that we have to have somebody represent the South Region
area as a whole.
This is the one opportunity that we have for Washington
to see the South Coast area as one region and not separate it.
So I appreciate the fact that this hearing took place today,
and that the community is given the opportunity
to give an input on what they feel
about the map that was put out.
I appreciate all the effort that was made towards that map,
but I truly don't think that Fall River should
be put together with cities like Newton and Brookline
that are not struggling to not pay another hour to have
their kids in daycare, like families like me
and others in Fall River are.
It's a whole different dynamic.
They have their own struggles.
I believe they do.
But they are not the same that the community in Fall River
has.
New Bedford has our same struggles.
And as a Portuguese person, I would
like to see my Portuguese community together and not
be split into two different districts
and be represented by two separate senators.
So thank you so much for giving me this opportunity today.
I was rushing to see if I could get home in time.
I did log in on my lunch hour to see
if I was going to be called.
It wasn't the time, but I made it.
So I thank you all for hearing me,
and I hope that the right decision is made,
thinking about the people in the South Coast.
Thank you.
Thank you, Sandra, very much, and thank you for pulling over.
You made a-- you got us a little scared there.
But your blinker's on.
But no, we appreciate it.
You are the last person, I believe.
Oh, no.
Somebody else has checked in, so we have one more to go.
And no, really, thank you for having your patience
and checking back in.
All this testimony is helpful, and I really
like that people are really giving us their honest opinion
about what their thoughts are on this.
And I'll ask my colleagues on the committee
if we have any questions.
Hearing none, we will move to the last person to testify now.
And enjoy the rest of your evening, Sandra.
Thank you.
You as well.
Thank you so much.
OK.
Zelda MacGregor.
Zelda MacGregor will be the last person to testify.
We think.
Zelda.
This is Zelda.
Zelda, how are you?
Thank you for checking in.
I'm well.
And I want to apologize in advance that I literally just
walked in the door to get here on time for this,
and my cat will scream at me the whole time,
but she's fine and well cared for.
Yeah.
No worries, no worries.
So I did want to come in and just submit comment
that we've heard a lot about why New Bedford and Fall
River should be together, but everything
we hear about separating them sounds more about politics
to me, and the people who represent those cities
but not the people they represent who live there.
I mean, as recently as this weekend,
it was even referred to as the Jake Auchincloss incumbency
plan, and that's what it feels like to me.
I'm not sure why our seaside communities
can't be united all along the Cape and up the north coast,
through Quincy or Boston--
I think is where that ends.
So that's just kind of my thing there.
I don't understand why we would be
splitting up these communities to just boldly and obviously be
protecting one incumbent rather than focusing on what
makes more sense for the area.
And that's all I have.
Zelda, let me just-- let me just say this.
If Congressman Lynch's district needed 50,000 people,
we wouldn't be having this discussion.
So there is no politics in this.
This is simply the fact that we have geography and numbers
here.
And Congressman Lynch has to shed 40,000 people,
and there's only two congressional districts
he can give it to.
One of them is Congressman Keating's, and the other one
is Congressman Auchincloss.
Those numbers are readily available, so you can see them.
And when you have 40,000 people and you
have Congressman Keating, who only needs 6,000 people--
actually, he needed 6,579--
you still have 35,000 people that have to go somewhere.
Again, if Congressman Lynch's district
didn't have excess population, we
wouldn't be having this discussion, because that's just
the way it is, you know.
So this is not-- this is simply, what
are we going to do with this population
and where does it go.
And that's just how it played out this time.
10 years ago-- actually, going into this,
quite frankly, we thought that Congressman Keating's district
was going to need a lot more than 6,500.
We thought it was going to lead upwards of 20,000.
But luckily, the census count was strong and stronger
than we anticipated.
And because of that, we have a situation
where Keating can't give to anybody
because of his districts.
He's on a [INAUDIBLE].
So it has to go somewhere.
So--
May I amend my comment?
Yeah.
Well, given that, and you talk about 10 years ago, I mean,
in 2011, you made it pretty clear
that we were splitting Fall River to protect Congressman
Barney Frank.
Can you really tell me that we're not
making these decisions-- there are places that we
could change the districts.
I mean, some of the things that have come into CD9 where
I live on the Cape-- and I understand
that we're a Peninsula.
But there were choices made, I think, in adding--
what is it, Hingham and Cohasset, maybe?
Two of those towns?
Yup.
It kind of-- those seem to fit more
with other adjacent districts than they do with this one.
And perhaps that would make up for it,
and that's all I have to say.
Thank you.
No, I just want--
I feel like I owe you an answer when you say something,
you know.
And we've been that way all along in this process,
is that if somebody really has a question or makes a statement,
we want them to know why we did what we did.
With Fall River being the 10th largest city
in the Commonwealth, sitting down there, being split up
10 years ago, we looked at it and said, hey,
we can make it whole.
We thought it--
I thought it was-- actually, I didn't
think this was going to be a big deal, quite frankly.
But clearly, there are people that
have strong opinions about this, and you
know, we had a hearing on our House maps,
the state House maps, and we split the town of Concord.
Four precincts, and we split them into two districts,
and we probably had about 45 minutes of testimony on that
as well.
So you know, you have to split some cities and towns.
In this congressional map, we split eight of them.
It's just, there's no denying that you have to do it.
And you know, but we can also make
them hold, too, which we did with Fall River
this time around.
So again, those are just decisions
we made based solely upon population and geography.
So anyways, I just wanted to give you an answer.
That's all.
So I believe that's the last-- oh, wait a minute.
Carlos Cesar.
Carlos Cesar will be, hopefully, the last one.
Well, not hopefully.
We'll see.
Carlos Cesar.
You're next.
Representative Moran, Carlos Cesar was with me.
He had to go to work.
He's a school bus driver, but he left a video for me
to play for you.
He would like to enter his testimony via video.
Would that be OK?
That would be perfectly fine.
OK.
Let me share my screen.
Good afternoon.
My name is Carlos Cesar.
I'm a long, long life resident in Fall River.
First of all, I want to thank the opportunity
to give me this couple of minutes
to give my view about this.
I can't hear audio.
I don't know if it's missing for others.
--of financial group, but [INAUDIBLE] Portuguese
community are very well established here
in this two cities.
Taking in my view about this project,
it's a big disadvantage to cities
to put us in competing with a city like Newton.
We have nothing in common.
And the way I think, I think we will
be the last one on the list.
Let's compete.
Let's see who's going to get first the money if it's money
available for some projects.
Are we ready to complete our projects?
Ready to start and compete with Newton?
No, I don't think so.
So here's my view.
And I'm not even bringing the politician side on it.
I really don't care who's the politician that's
going to represent us or are representing us.
It's a project that we need to do, and we're going to do it.
And I can tell you, who knows, two years from now,
we still have the same representation
that we have right now on the state?
I don't know.
But is the project going to stop,
because it changed the presentation,
or are we still going to move forward?
So here's my view.
Please consider to keep us the way it is.
New Bedford and Fall River belong together.
We are brothers and sisters.
And we are-- just like me, my opinion--
we belong together.
We are together on this big fight,
and compete with big cities.
Thank you.
All right.
Excellent.
Thank you for your video testimony.
We have one more person, apparently.
Linda.
I think is Linda Ferrera.
Linda?
It's just in here as Linda.
We're going to promote her now.
Great.
You know, I know that you have been at this all day,
and many people with my position have spoken.
And I don't want to delay the process.
So I would say that the callers that I've listened
to have given the same position that I feel at keeping
it the way it is right now.
So thank you so much.
So Linda, I'm sorry, we missed the first part
of your testimony.
Just so to make it clear, you believe
we should have one congressman in the 4th and one congressman
in the 9th.
Is that what you were--
I do.
At this point, they would both be fighting
for what our needs are.
But if you're going to join us in any way with New Bedford,
then I think it should be, the whole Bristol County
should be joined.
If you're going to join it, let's
do us all that have the same economic situation.
So to piecemeal it, I don't agree.
And at this point, every district
has more affluent populations than others.
That seems to be more of a balance.
So I would prefer to keep it the way
it is until they want to change it and put all the Bristol
County together.
Thank you, Linda.
And I--
I don't want to go on and on, because most
of the people that spoke gave their position and their view
as I would.
And I know you've been at this all day since 11:00,
so I thank you so much.
I thank the redistricting team.
I appreciate it.
Thank you.
I appreciate your testimony.
So I'm with my groups in Fall River.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Linda.
Thanks a lot.
Bye.
OK.
All right.
So I think that's it.
Let me check one more time with Amanda.
Are we done?
We are done.
All right.
[INAUDIBLE] we have five hours and 1/2, 5 and 1/2 hours.
Well, listen.
I think we've had a lot to chew on here,
and we have a lot to talk about.
So I want to thank you all for sticking with us so long
and throughout the whole 5 and 1/2 hours.
I want to thank my co-chair.
I want to thank my staff for the work
that they've done on this hearing today and all
these hearings.
They make us look good.
So anyways, unless somebody has something else to say,
I believe we can adjourn this hearing
and talk further about this offline, I guess,
at some point in time.
But I'd like to entertain a motion.
It would be great.
So moved.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you all.
Thank you, everybody.
Thank you.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
Have a good night, everyone.
All right.
Bye-bye.